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Re:Re:Re:Re:Front axle oil seal.

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16 Feb 2021 14:12 #232850 by RayPaterson
I have replaced my kingpins fairly recently. They weren't worn but the oil seals were leaking. One of them has started leaking again. Am I making a rookie mistake? Is it easy to damage the oil seal during that bit of juggling when you put the shaft in and struggle to get the joint together without the bottom bearing falling out?
Ray

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16 Feb 2021 15:22 #232852 by Roger Fairclough
Are you using a proprietary seal or a genuine Suzuki? Seals from a bearing supplier are too rigid and don't flex enough to cope with the small deviation that exists on the drive shaft as you steer.

The bottom bearing needs to be located onto the King Pin when you re-fit the inner hub. That way it can't fall out.

Roger
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16 Feb 2021 15:45 - 16 Feb 2021 15:48 #232853 by Scimike
Replied by Scimike on topic Front axle oil seal.
Hi Ray,
I have only ever done this job once, and like Roger said I used the correct seal from Martins Shop ^^^^^. So yes the correct seal works well, but yes you can damage them if you are not careful. The shaft splines can damage the seal lip if you rest the shaft on the seal and simply push it in. Its better to guide it in with care, that way it prevents any potential damage of any seal you use.
Once past the splines you are unlikely to damage it with bearing juggling, but plenty of sticky grease will hold the bottom bearing in place as you swear at it.
Unforunately its a do it again job, hopefully second times a winner.
 

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Last edit: 16 Feb 2021 15:48 by Scimike.
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17 Feb 2021 05:56 #232870 by Lambert
Replied by Lambert on topic Front axle oil seal.
As already said genuine seals are best. I have also found that the blue waterproof grease Martin supplies in the shop makes the fitting of the bottom bearing much more pleasant as other than the tack of the grease there is nothing to support the bearing as you put the knuckle on.

Temeraire (2018 quasar grey automatic)
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17 Feb 2021 10:14 #232879 by RayPaterson
Replied by RayPaterson on topic Front axle oil seal.
Thanks everyone. Yes, I definitely used the proper seals from Martin.
I guess I did damage it with that bit of wrestling it takes to get the shaft in and joint together.
I have sent for seals and that's a few hours work to try and get it right.
Just wondering which job takes the most time to replace an under £5 part!
Ray

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17 Feb 2021 10:30 #232881 by Busta
Replied by Busta on topic Front axle oil seal.
If you're only replacing the seal it's a relatively straightforward and quick job to acess by removing the stub axle rather than the king pins. Easiest on non-abs models. With ABS you will also need to pull off the wheel bearing in order to access the 4 bolts holding the stub axle on, but even that doesn't take long with the appropriate tool.
Vacuum hub off
Remove circlip and square washer from splines
Wheel off
Brake caliper yoke off
Disc off
Label and disconnect vacuum hoses
Remoive the 4x 14mm head bolts that hold the stub axle on and pull the whole assembly out with the driveshaft

That gives you easy acess to the seal.
 

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17 Feb 2021 12:12 #232886 by Roger Fairclough
If you are happy with the condition and pre-load setting on the king pin bearings then Busta's method is correct.

But if you have removed the steering knuckle to check or replace the bearings or outer weather proof seal then you start with the fitting of the oil seal into the axle housing. Then you replace the outer weather proof seal/s. Then refit/replace steering knuckle outer bearing races. Place top bearing into position and fit bottom race onto bottom bearing cap and loosely bolt to steering knuckle. Angle knuckle downwards and slide into position onto axle housing. Knuckle is lifted upwards after bottom bearing locates in outer race and top bearing cap located to fix knuckle into position. All shims replaced where they came from. Once the bottom bearing is fixed onto the cap it cannot fall out.

With the knuckle correctly assembled the drive shaft is offered up. Hold the stub axle so the the axle shaft is parallel to the axle case. Then slide the assembly into the case. A smear of grease onto the oil seal and that part of the shaft that rotates within the seal is good practice.

Roger
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17 Feb 2021 12:57 #232889 by Busta
Replied by Busta on topic Front axle oil seal.
Also check the condition of the drive shaft in the area that runs inside the seal. I had one that kept leaking and on closer inspection this surface was damaged, presumably from someone ham-fistedly hammering off the CV joint.
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18 Feb 2021 10:21 #232926 by RayPaterson
Replied by RayPaterson on topic Front axle oil seal.
Thank you Roger and Busta,

A couple of quick questions..
Is this the tool I will need to do the job without taking off the kingpins?  www.bigjimny.com/store/hub-nut-tool.html 
Can I easily get a replacement for the circlip that holds the square washer on? Would probably be easier to remove if I don't have to save it 
Thanks

Ray

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18 Feb 2021 10:57 #232928 by Roger Fairclough
The king pins hold the steering knuckle to the axle shaft and the inner, outer hubs and the brake disc attach to the knuckle. If you just want to replace the inner oil seal - the one that separates the grease in the knuckle from the oil in the diff - then it is possible to do so by removing the king pins and pulling the whole hub/knuckle assembly off, but note that this is a heavy lump of metal and may be difficult to control. As you will need to remove the brake caliper, removing the disc is common sense as this reduces the weight and the bulk considerably.
If you don't want to dismantle the king pins then you must start by removing the hub and this means using the special tool.
So, in sequence, remove wheel, caliper, brake disc, outer hub with bearings - using special tool - inner hub, drive shaft. This gives you access to the inside of the knuckle and the oil seal. When you have got this far, take a good look at the condition of the grease. Is it milky in colour? This is a sign of water contamination. If it glints it is probably metal fragments and if it is dirty it's probably got dirt in it. For the circlip try Martin or your dealer.

On a personal note I would always strip out the lot. Weather seals, inner seals, wheel bearings, kingpins. Strip out the lot, clean it all and refit/replace with fresh grease and settings. But that's me.

Roger

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18 Feb 2021 12:21 #232935 by mlines
Replied by mlines on topic Front axle oil seal.

Thank you Roger and Busta,

A couple of quick questions..
Is this the tool I will need to do the job without taking off the kingpins?  www.bigjimny.com/store/hub-nut-tool.html 
Can I easily get a replacement for the circlip that holds the square washer on? Would probably be easier to remove if I don't have to save it 
Thanks

Ray


The tool is only needed to change the wheel bearing (and associated Spindle bush). It is not needed for any work around the hub, including Kingpins and CV joint work. 

Martin

2003 M13 early KAP build.
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18 Feb 2021 14:53 - 18 Feb 2021 14:55 #232947 by RayPaterson
Replied by RayPaterson on topic Front axle oil seal.
Thank you, yes, I am a 'may as well do the lot' person. It also makes sense that if the seal has gone then the grease will be contaminated with oil. At least that means I don't need to get the hub tool. I will get circlips though.

​​​​​​Ray
Last edit: 18 Feb 2021 14:55 by RayPaterson.

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