Re:Deciding on a Diff for a Daily Driver

I've got a bit of a conundrum here:

My jimny is my only car and it does everything. Off road wise, that means trials, and a multi day on and off road navigational challenge. 
It went in for it's mot recently, and the tester noted that the back diff was making a noise. Not great. I jacked it up and checked, and found the noise is coming from the spider gears (? the ones that let the wheels spin a different speeds), so this is an opportunity to put in something more useful offroad. I don't know if there are any garages near my that would do it, but I watched Martins video of him installing an air locker and based on that, I can do the work myself if I get the indicator thingy. 

As far as I can see, the options are:

ARB air lockers, while I have no doubts they're good, they're too expensive for me, and I don't know where I'd put the air system. 

Quaife ATB, on the expensive side again, but I can probably afford it if it's worth it. Great on the road, and should be reliable, but from what I've read on here, they don't actually lock, and don't help if I've got a wheel in the air. 

Chinese E locker, could be good. The expensive ones seem to be getting close to the cost of a Quaife, but the cheaper ones are closer to a lunchbox. Apparently they unlock for a moment as you change direction and I've seen a thread on here where it didn't actually fit.

Lunchbox, cheap and cheerful, and apparently excellent offroad, but I've seen mixed reports on their on road manners.

Standard diff, cheap, but boring. Easiest if I can find a correct fully assembled unit, but I understand there's a few different ratios, and I don't think there's a correct one going on ebay at the moment.

Any thoughts or comments would be appreciated. What one would you get in this situation?

This sort of diff. will obtain approx. 90% lockup.

Roger

considering the amount of work or cost if you have to hire someone to install it, I would go for the ARB and do it once. It is the best both on and off road and the best quality. As yours,  mine is also a daily driver and used for long trips during the summer.
I could afford the ARB just because my friends and collegues chipped in for my 40th birthday present. My second one (for the SJ) I saved up for, sold parts and managed to trick money away on my hidden Suzuki account in a swedish bank so my wife won't find it (just kidding, she knows.)
And when it was bought the NOK against USD was favourable. If i had less to spend, I would be on the hunt for a used one instead I guess. Remember that in the rear also a RD88 from a samurai will fit nicely. Mine does.

This maybe of interest. Being American the naming convention is different, but you can still figure out which is which.



Looks like the subject in general could open a can of worms, it's open to personal needs and expectations.

Personally, if your goal is day to day road use with perfect off road control I would save your cash and fit an ARB air locker....
I am assuming the Chinese electric lockers are rubbish, possibly unfair, but not seen any long term use reports so not even considering.

Running second is the Quaife ATB. Not quite as good in the mud, but unlikely to cause any road issues and generally just make things better than an open diff.

Of course just my opinion, but full locker off road (by air or by e) for me.



 

By the way, my ARB was also put in when my diff failed. Most likely because I been pulling trailers alot, got the M16A, 235's and a heavy foot.
My diff made a tiny bit of noise for about 10 seconds of driving before the pinion lost a few teeth in a horrible sound as I accelerated out from my driveway.
Just barely managed to crawl and limp back to my garage.

I think the earlier models has better lower stronger ratio in the diffs, 3.9 or yours 2004 has 4.09.
Mine is 2005 with 4.3 ratio so more "force" transmitted in the diffs.
But then again if you plan on doing larger tires you could see if swapping to the 05 or newer diffs could be suitable for your tire size.
check a gear calculator if you consider this.

I would absolutely love an ARB locker, but the money won't work. I'm having second thoughts about the quaife, as well as I've just remembered I was going to put a new set of tyres on it. The other advantage of the quaife is I could pretend to the insurance that it's standard and they wouldn't be able to tell. For the moment, it looks like I try and get a standard diff.
Does anyone know where I could get the bearings and gaskets I'd need if I was tearing into my diff?

I'm the one who fitted Chinese E-lockers. If you don't mind waiting a couple of weeks the cheapest way to get them is direct from Haifeng through Alibaba. I think there are a couple of manufacturers but Haifeng (HF) have a reasonable reputation.
The rear diff isn't a bad fit. There is a bracket that stops the electromagnet from rotating which isn't a very good fit. It can be made to fit with a bit of filing and bending. I made a new one because I have a fully equipped metal shop and, well that's the way I roll. It's a good idea to strip the diff and give it a thorough clean and remove any sharp edges. Internally the build quality doesn't look too bad. They do cut a few corners and some parts could be better but overall they aren't bad. In use the diff does need to rotate something like 20 - 30 degrees before it engages but in practice I can't say I have ever noticed it. Due to the way the solenoid mechanism works I wouldn't recommend driving long distances with the locker engaged. It's more of a case of engaging the locker to get yourself out of trouble then disengaging after.
I wouldn't recommend a front E-locker on an early diff. The locker needs a lot of modification to make it fit. It's really designed to fit the larger later diff casing. To be honest a front locker is a luxury. One locker is enough for the majority of cases.

If your diff is making a noise I'd strongly recommend replacing all of the bearings while you are at it. The side bearings are an odd imperial size and are pretty expensive. You'll also need a new pinion seal and crush tube. The costs do add up pretty quickly.

You will need a torque wrench, spring balance, dial gauge and good quality bearing puller. You don't absolutely have to have a press but it makes life a lot easier. The job isn't that difficult but it can be very time consuming and you need to be methodical. Follow the instructions in the Suzuki manual carefully. It's a case of make a small adjustment, check preloads and clearances, readjust and repeat.. and repeat... and repeat.

I've only had the diff fitted for a couple of months so I can't say much about long term life but from what I have seen of the internals I don't see any reason why they shouldn't last a decent time as long as you have a modicum of mechanical sympathy. If you're a complete lead foot go with an ARB for peace of mind. I have seen a lot of people online bashing these diffs but if you look for people who have actually owned them, most seem to be pretty happy with them.

If you decide a locker is too much money I'd say your best bet would be to get another used diff. The only new parts you need are two axle seals, some RTV sealant (ordinary household silicone works in a pinch), some brake fluid and of course diff oil. You may get away with re-using the seals but they aren't expensive.

OK yes, I'm being opinionated again, but I just don't like crush tubes. On my LC I obtained from the states a proper "solid tube". It came with shims and was easy to set up. With a crush tube there is the possibility of flex and I believe a solid tube will eliminate this. I know a guy who had an ARB locker fitted to his LJ70 and flex caused the pinion teeth to dig into the ARB casing. This guy had no mechanical sympathy and his throttle was all or nothing.

Roger

I have a Quaife LSD in mine (Daily driver, 1.6, farm and forestry work, towing 50% of the time). I'm very pleased with it. An LSD is the only option that improves the car on-road as well as off-road, and it's fit and forget. Most of the time you don't know it's there but accelerate hard around a tight corner or out of a junction and you notice the extra shove. I can get a pleasing American-cop-car-style tyre squeal driving around carparks. Off road it means both wheels are pushing most of the time, right up until one comes off the ground. I installed mine myself without a dial indicator. 
An air locker is great in extreme situations but it's all or nothing, installation is more complicated and they are expensive. An automatic locker can be anywhere on a scale from terrible to fantastic depending on a myriad of ever changing variables. I'd avoid them in a daily driver.
If I'd seen the Chinese torsen E-lockers before I purchased the Quaife I would have been tempted to go for one of them. As I'm sure you know they are an LSD just like the Quaife with the added benefit of being fully locked at the touch of a button.

The Quaife ATB is quite a piece of kit if you are an "enthusiastic" driver. It instantly gives the the car a "lift-off oversteer" chassis trait and if combined with good suspension, makes these little cars sing on B roads....

Not that I am that sort of chap but.... EVERY other 4x4 including 400hp Rangerover Sports are easy pickings in the tight and twisty bits and whilst the car is generally well sorted, most of it, is down to the diff. Even braking is improved with force spread equally across the axle....

Off road, I am yet to fail whilst on the lanes with big tyre cars. I follow 32"+ tyre cars all over....

Quaife rear and ARB front is my eventual aim but the front locker is way down on my priority list, the car gets where it needs to go with just the Quaife in the rear.....

sniper

I have the Quaife combined with a welded front diff and it is quite a formidable setup.