Ballast when towing?

Off the back of a different conversation do we think it is better to ballast a jimny to gvm when towing to improve traction especially when stopping  or is it better to run as light as possible to make most use of the limited power? Yes I know those who have met me will be thinking that I do a fair job of ballasting just sitting in a jimny but let's not be rude I'm only 2 normal people. 

For reference in daily trim temeraire is 1140kg without me but I can easily remove approximately 50kg without suffering too much limitation to practicality.

I can't say that traction or stopping performance has ever been an issue when towing both vehicle loaded or unloaded. I am not sure the exact weight of the "camping junk" we throw in the back of the Jimny, but it's over 50kg in total, then two people get in. But I've towed the same load with or without the junk, no noticeable difference.
This comment is in relation to a braked trailer, the only time I noticed poor stopping performance was towing a 575kg unbaked trailer.
The overriding want during all towing trips was more power, so my vote falls on the side of saving as much weight as you can, so throw the ballast.
It would also assist the stopping should your trailer brakes fail to operate correctly.

Scimike wrote:

I can't say that traction or stopping performance has ever been an issue when towing both vehicle loaded or unloaded. I am not sure the exact weight of the "camping junk" we throw in the back of the Jimny, but it's over 50kg in total, then two people get in. But I've towed the same load with or without the junk, no noticeable difference.
This comment is in relation to a braked trailer, the only time I noticed poor stopping performance was towing a 575kg unbaked trailer.
The overriding want during all towing trips was more power, so my vote falls on the side of saving as much weight as you can, so throw the ballast.
It would also assist the stopping should your trailer brakes fail to operate correctly.


On the Gen.4 the un-braked towing limit is 350kg, so I am not surprised that you had problems towing 575 kg, but I agree with everything else you said.

Roger
 

^^^^^ guilty as charged your honour.
​​​​​​The G3 has the same unbraked limi. Not as guilty as it first sounds, the trailer was 346kg and all the junk in the back of the Jimny made up the difference, so the 575kg was split between the trailer and vehicle. I had gone to the trouble of putting the trailer on a weighbridge and loaded to the max, the rest went in the rear of the vehicle (seats removed)....It's was still an overall load of 575kg on the brakes, and at this point you can tell Jimny brakes, like the engine, are starting to work hard.

The thinking behind full gvm of 1420kg is that the tyres are being pushed into the road more and are less likely to lock up or rather work harder when the abs fires. Allegedly. On some of the hills round here I can occasionally feel the trailer pushing for that split second as the overrun moves into play as I crest a climb also occasionally the Bridgestone do run out of talent but that's usually on flatter ground if I have to slow from full speed quicker than I would otherwise. That's a tyre thing though not really a loading thing. I guess trial and error may be in my future.

Would you like to put a mathematical figure on "full speed".

Roger

Having done alot of towing with a "light" Weight of approx 500kg, and some with 1000kg, i would not think it would have much to say as there is little or no practical difference in the grip and friction with normal road conditions.
If it is slippery, it still is so, with more weight in my experience.

My old BFG's are lousy in the wet as i stated elsewhere, and have been the only reason I had any spooky situations while pulling a trailer. The trailer pushing the rear out in slippery old polished wet asfalt, so overstear is an understatement.

Also been pulling the trailer on snow and ice but then the jimnys nordic winter tires are way better than the trailer, and have been coping well doing most of the braking.
The worst is when the jimny got good grip on ice and snow and you pull out too fast and see the trailer is flicked way over on the side. A bit of fun when expected and a bit scary if forgotten

1000 liters of water or the Ifor Williams horsebox are both 11-1200kg or so and they behave well. The Jimny horsepowers prevent most of the overspeeding problems i may run into.
Very little highway use with 1000kg for me but it has happened.

My Jimny feels nicely planted with a 1,300kg braked single axle trailer. It slows down from 60mph without fuss. Getting the nose weight correct makes a big difference- not so easy with a trailer full of livestock! If you did add ballast you'd want it over the front axle. Fit a 2nd battery, winch bumper and winch perhaps? 

Sort of completely off topic but I'm in the horsey world or rather my wife, daughter & granddaughter are, which means whether I like it or not I am.

This subject comes up rather frequently as the practicality of having a pickup with an open bed for throwing things in is great. But I am reliably advised they are not as good a tow vehicle as a traditional SUV as they lack the weight over the back axle. The big difference with the Jimny is that with 2 full size horses & trailer, you're over 2 tonnes which if that starts to push you along the road you know about it.

So does this have any relevance on the Jimny, not sure but some weight over the back axle cannot be a bad thing.

Scimike wrote:

^^^^^ guilty as charged your honour.
​​​​​​The G3 has the same unbraked limi. Not as guilty as it first sounds, the trailer was 346kg and all the junk in the back of the Jimny made up the difference, so the 575kg was split between the trailer and vehicle. I had gone to the trouble of putting the trailer on a weighbridge and loaded to the max, the rest went in the rear of the vehicle (seats removed)....It's was still an overall load of 575kg on the brakes, and at this point you can tell Jimny brakes, like the engine, are starting to work hard.

And with a braked trailer my experience from driving a VW T5 of twice the jimnys weight, is that where the T5 can stop the trailer enough to activate the trailer brakes, the Jimnys weight is not enough allways to compress the brake damper on the trailer.
But then we are talking very rare situations of lacking grip. I still do not think a 100kg more in the Jimny would make much difference. 

Also been pulling the boat some 6-700 kg without brakes. Not supposed to be pulling that on the road, I know, i plead guilty.
Not a big problem other than me driving slow as this a rural area. 
  

Phaeton wrote:

Sort of completely off topic but I'm in the horsey world or rather my wife, daughter & granddaughter are, which means whether I like it or not I am.

This subject comes up rather frequently as the practicality of having a pickup with an open bed for throwing things in is great. But I am reliably advised they are not as good a tow vehicle as a traditional SUV as they lack the weight over the back axle. The big difference with the Jimny is that with 2 full size horses & trailer, you're over 2 tonnes which if that starts to push you along the road you know about it.

So does this have any relevance on the Jimny, not sure but some weight over the back axle cannot be a bad thing.

Well, You and me both then, Wife and daughters horses and I just have to pay for some of it. But then we mostly know where the kids are on their time off.  

I never understand the pickups, there is more dry space in a van. Depending on what van, there is not that much rear axle weight difference i think. Many people here use the Hilux not sure why, but I do no understand toyotas either. Very rarely you can see a LR here, now most other japanese though like Pajero, LC are used mostly to pull. I love my VW T5 it is a great pulling car but not cheap to own.  

I think the longer wheel base also play a part. The Jimny is a bit too short, and my T5 is long making it a very stable and solid driving experience.