Re:Recommended suspension kit 2" for New Jimny?

Busta wrote: Seems a shame to fit a lift kit, only to have the crossmember sticking down under the car like that robbing ground clearance. I'd be tempted to leave it off. I'm led to believe the rest of the chassis is unchanged from the gen3, which worked fine for 20 years without it.

This would all depend on what you are trying to achieve.

I doubt the cross member is the lowest point and lowering it is unlikely to cause any off road compromises. Happy to be proven wrong. I’m not sure leaving it off completely would be the best thing. It is there for a purpose.

On the flip side as poor lift might give you more clearance. But may reduce off road ability if the suspension travel is compromised.

The easiest way to think of it is. Assume you have 10” of total suspension travel. Sitting on level ground gives you 5” of compression and 5” of droop.

If you simply lift the vehicle (stiffer/longer springs or spring spacers) by 2”. You’ll now have 7” of compression and 3” of droop. But still a total of 10”.

The problem here is. Such limited droop means you’ll be lifting wheels a lot off road. Also most means of lifting that involve heavy duty springs may not compress very well. So you might actually have lost an inch of travel overall.

For off road what we are really wanting is more travel. Longer shocks should allow more droop. So add some +2” shocks and with a lift will return you to the stock 5” of droop. The risk is, a longer shock can bottom out under compression. So some setups use extended bump shocks to limit your compression.

In the above example the longer shocks may have given us the 5” of droop. But we would probably have lost 1” of compression due to the lift springs (6”). So we have gained 1” travel overall. Although an extended bump stop will remove that 1” advantage.

Note the numbers are all made up. Not what the Jimny suspension actually does.

But the key is. You can’t normally increase the compression travel over stock. Not without radical changes. All the increases in suspension travel will come from increased droop. But any setup that tries to retain the maximum compression travel is likely a better balanced setup and may well offer more total suspension travel.

With the 4th gen the front prop will however impact the crossmember. Making a physical barrier to increasing the front drop beyond nominal amounts unless the crossmember is addressed. The rear is a lot easier to increase the droop. But doing so can make the vehicle less balanced off road.

If you plan to off road. Then I personally like a balanced setup.

For the Jimny the kit I like the most so far and what is on my ‘to buy’ list. Is the Raptor kit from Jimnybits. I really don’t want a massive lift unless I was building something extreme that required it.


Apologies I seemed to have ended up rambling a bit.....

300bhpton wrote: A lift is not directly related to suspension travel increases. And more flexy suspension doesn’t necessarily mean a lifted vehicle.

i.e.

Lifting a vehicle 40mm has no direct relation to giving you more down travel. So the amount of lift also has no relationship with if the front crossmember will be in the way or not.

Not sure what you mean here bhp, Sure with a body lift (spring spacers etc) you're right, you could lift away without gaining any additional down travel because your factory shock will top out. BUT with a true suspension lift, longer shocks and longer springs you will gain down travel all be it 40-50mm.That'll be enough for the prop to foul on the front crossmember unless you fit a compromise kit like the Trailmaster. The longer shocks if gauged correctly to the vehicle will have the same compressed length as the OEM shocks - So you've gained, not lost anything. If the compressed length of the new shock is the same as the OEM shock, no additional bump stops are required.

DAGZOOK wrote: Not sure what you mean here bhp, Sure with a body lift (spring spacers etc) you're right, you could lift away without gaining any additional down travel because your factory shock will top out. BUT with a true suspension lift, longer shocks and longer springs you will gain down travel all be it 40-50mm.That'll be enough for the prop to foul on the front crossmember unless you fit a compromise kit like the Trailmaster. The longer shocks if gauged correctly to the vehicle will have the same compressed length as the OEM shocks - So you've gained, not lost anything. If the compressed length of the new shock is the same as the OEM shock, no additional bump stops are required.

I think I slightly misread your post last night.

However, what I was trying to say is. Just because a kit 'lifts' a vehicle. Does not mean it'll give you more articulation or flexy suspension. And in fact some of the best suspension setups (general or other vehicles) don't actually lift the vehicle much or at all.

Also shock length really is irrelevant in terms of 'lifting' a vehicle. And companies that confuse this issue are not helping or worse.

Reading statements such as:
Custom Bilstein B6 Shock Absorbers, extended to suit ride height increase

Would make me question if they understand how suspension works. It certainly doesn't endear me to want to buy their kit. Along with several other things they say in their listing.

300bhpton wrote:

DAGZOOK wrote: Not sure what you mean here bhp, Sure with a body lift (spring spacers etc) you're right, you could lift away without gaining any additional down travel because your factory shock will top out. BUT with a true suspension lift, longer shocks and longer springs you will gain down travel all be it 40-50mm.That'll be enough for the prop to foul on the front crossmember unless you fit a compromise kit like the Trailmaster. The longer shocks if gauged correctly to the vehicle will have the same compressed length as the OEM shocks - So you've gained, not lost anything. If the compressed length of the new shock is the same as the OEM shock, no additional bump stops are required.

I think I slightly misread your post last night.

However, what I was trying to say is. Just because a kit 'lifts' a vehicle. Does not mean it'll give you more articulation or flexy suspension. And in fact some of the best suspension setups (general or other vehicles) don't actually lift the vehicle much or at all.

Also shock length really is irrelevant in terms of 'lifting' a vehicle. And companies that confuse this issue are not helping or worse.

Reading statements such as:
Custom Bilstein B6 Shock Absorbers, extended to suit ride height increase

Would make me question if they understand how suspension works. It certainly doesn't endear me to want to buy their kit. Along with several other things they say in their listing.

No worries, It's good to have a discussion about it - that's what this forum is all about helping people to make an informed decision.

I'm of the understanding that shock length is very relevant when talking about a true suspension lift. If you were to install spring spacers/larger springs with OEM shocks at a standard length; they'd top out far more frequently. Shocks are designed to operate within a certain range - it's the same when lowering a vehicle. It's not advisable to run a shock absorber that's operating at its max or min extremities, you'll end up with a wacked set of shocks in no time.

This JIMNYSTYLE kit is being developed by Bilstein, the white Gen.4 photographed on the website is the prototype vehicle. This kit isn't just being made for JIMNYSTYLE.. I think they're just being the guinea pig. Bilstein and H&R are an age old combination - reviews online (particularly in the performance sector swear blind by them). It's worth noting that Bilstein shock absorbers come with a lifetime warranty against manufacturing defects i.e leaks and premature failures. I've also had great personal life out of a set of B6 shockers on a sports car - 80k miles still operating as they were on day one :silly: Not often a manufacture gives you that piece of mind.

All down to personal preference at the end of the day. Whatever I do I want to go down the subtle route and just improve the factory set up - If I can find a kit that'll kill the bounciness/body roll and give me a very small advantage off-road in the process - I'll be happy.

I've got an update from JIMNYSTYLE on the Bilstein H&R Lift kit - QUOTE:

"The complete kit will lift the Jimny by 40mm (this is the amount of lift we have measured on our Jimny after the suspension has settled), but the dampers themselves are 20mm longer than their OEM counterparts (please see attached a quick picture that we took during our install comparing an OEM front damper to one of our Bilstein front dampers side by side).

The H&R spring rates are aimed at Jimnys that are not excessively loaded. We have done the vast majority of our testing with 1-2 occupants in the car, as the primary purpose of the kit is to improve everyday drivability. We wanted to make sure that the kit was optimised for the 90% of driving that a lot of Jimny owners will be doing, as opposed to the rare occasions where it is treated to more extreme circumstances"

So this kit is aimed at complimenting the Gen.4 without crazy modification - It provides a modest 40mm lift (20mm additional droop + 20mm spring lift). As you can see from the photographs the Bilstein 'monotube' shock absorbers are a greater diameter over the OE allowing the shock to hold more oil and feature a much larger piston - so this shock should stand up to serious abuse both on and off road. The spring rates are being designed for a stock Jimny without excessive additional vehicle weight. Which is where other lift kits seem to fall down... (OME & Tough Dog).

DAGZOOK wrote:
No worries, It's good to have a discussion about it - that's what this forum is all about helping people to make an informed decision.

It certainly is and I agree fully

DAGZOOK wrote:
All down to personal preference at the end of the day. Whatever I do I want to go down the subtle route and just improve the factory set up - If I can find a kit that'll kill the bounciness/body roll and give me a very small advantage off-road in the process - I'll be happy.

I'm not sure a lift will help body roll in any shape or form. Ride over rough terrain looks to be improved when watching vids on YouTube. However I can't really say I would consider the stock setup to be bouncy or prone to lots of roll. I'd almost say the opposite!