Pedders Lift Kit - Help

I can do the weekend after this if that's any use otherwise I'm likely free the 16th of Nov onwards.

DrRobin wrote:

I don’t want to get silly turning the car in to a competition machine (I will leave crawling over large boulders to others), it’s still used mostly on the road, just wanted to gain a bit more clearance when it’s needed.

You need to determine where the clearance is needed - a lift won't help if you're dragging the diffs, for that you'll need larger tyres, which in turn might need a lift.

Something I have not seen in any Jimny forum is "shaved diffs", where you "shave" an inch to an inch and a half off the bottom of the differentials, a modification that gives you more clearance under the diffs without switching to larger heavier tyres will all the negative side effects.

If you're curious as to how it's done, search over at the AusZookers forum, there are a couple of guys there who have done it on Vitaras & Samurais.  It's not something I have personal experience with, but at this point I'm not ruling it out, I think I know where I can pickup a couple of low mileage used Jimny axles.

I've done my fair share of RTV trials. 
With 2,3 and 4" lift kits 
Tyres do all the work I've run 27",29" and 32's 
I have now dropped back down to a 2" lift but keeping it on 7.50 16. I feel this is suitable for trials and green lanes. 

I'm pretty happy with it. Its firmer and more planted than than the trialmaster kit fitted to my white SZ5 which has more body roll. My dad had to do some motorway trips in both the other week in very windy conditons and the peddars kit on the blue Jimny was more planted in the windy conditons. Mine doesn't have an upgraded steering damper so I don't think its needed. I did see a company recently selling some Jimnys where they were only fitted with the peddars steering damper claiming it improved road handling so I would be interested to know if there is actually any difference. The peddars kit was fitted by the dealer when I bought the car so I don't know how long it took or how easy it was but they never said about any issues when fitting and this was probably the first car they fitted a lift kit to and I'm sure it helps having lifts and a professional workshop. I will check with the dealer though. Update: Dealer replied saying they can't remember having any issues and it probably didn't take no more than 3 hours to fit. On a more amateur level my dad did record the process of fitting the trialmaster kit to my car which is up on youtube and I think was around 2 evenings to fit.

As for will it improve your offroad performance I don't know. As others have said you don't gain anything under the diffs. We measured both our non lifted and lifted lcvs and they are the same under the diffs. The lift however does give more room within the wheel arches so in a flex off I think I would win over a standard Jimny. Perhaps my dad would like to challenge me. If you want any measurements from our 3 Jimnys just let us know  The extra room would also allow for even bigger tires to be fitted but I wouldn't want to go much bigger myself on a more road focused Jimny. Also then you start getting more negatives again with catching on bumpers which in turn loses articulation and upping the gearing etc. You could spend hours researching and comparing stats on each 2 inch lift kit on the market and i'm sure they are all different in some way but from the kits I've had they seem to give mostly the same result. If I was building another Jimny I would be interested in having a bilstein setup to see how that compares with my other cars. Your not going to do any harm to your car in fitting a 2inch lift and it can only help offroad and if nothing else it perks up the car and makes it look the part. It's also not permanant and can always be changed back. 

DrRobin wrote:

My primary goal is to get a bit more ground clearance for the local trials.  I realise I am never going to get the same as some of the Land Rovers at our club, but I often bottom out on some of the stages, it’s to try and stop this.

At the last two trials I have been to (including Sunday) it was won by a Jimny Gen 3 with 2” lift and Special Track 205/70R15 tyres.  I did touch bottom on Sunday but managed to push my way through, the extra 2” would have been helpful, I only dropped to 4th place as I missed a gate out.  Most trials I do, I ended up bottoming out and not always on the diffs.

More travel or progressive suspension would be nice and if the Pedders doesn’t offer this then it might be worth looking at alternatives, hence the post. 

I don’t want to get silly turning the car in to a competition machine (I will leave crawling over large boulders to others), it’s still used mostly on the road, just wanted to gain a bit more clearance when it’s needed.

So, clearance is massively improved with a lift. When I say clearance in this context, I mean under the chassis, so how much room you have before you bash the transfer box (or skid plate), chassis end radius arm links, sills and front bumper on the ground. The stock Jimny suffers here, as it has a relatively long wheel base for its tyre diameter.

So a lift will improve approach and departure angles and more importantly breakover angle.

That said, probably worth noting the Pedders kit seems to claim only 45mm, which is only 1.77", so even for a "2 inch" kit, it leaving clearance on the table.

This is one of the reasons why I didn't go for the Old Man Emu kit, as it also is under 2".


Now obviously if you want to gain clearance under the diffs, you won't get this with a lift kit. I've personally been caught out laning in Salisbury Plain and at one of the South BigJimny events where I've been beached on the diffs. Trialling I'd say this is less likely, unless you are unlucky with the site or terrain. Whereas hitting the radius arms mounts or transfer box and bumpers is far more likely on a trial.

If you want more diff clearance the only options is bigger tyres. I'm not quite sure how big a tyre you can stuff into the wheel arch before trimming. Some more extreme lift kits will limit suspension compression (aka up travel) with longer bump stops, this is to stop the shock bottoming out, but may also be to prevent bigger tyres becoming more of an issue. If more wheel arch clearance is needed, a body lift or trimming may also be an option.

That said, tyre choice is limited.

Stock 195/80R15 is tiny at only 27.3" tall.

A 215/75R15 sounds like an upgrade, but tbh they are also tiny (they look more chunky), but are only 27.7" tall. Depending on exact tread you go for, they may seem mostly the same height. And remember you'll only gain half the diameter difference as a lift or increased clearance under the diff. In this case you are only talking 0.4" or about 10mm. Which is honestly not noticeable off road.

My 215/75R15 tyres seemed like the right choice at the time. But in hindsight I don't think I would have gone for them.

The next size up is a 235/75R15. Sadly there are no tall skinny 15" tyres. These make a significant jump up to 28.9", which is very noticeable benefit over the two smaller sizes.

I have no idea if these would rub on a stock Jimny as my mine was lifted, but I get full suspension compression without rubbing. But I do have an aftermarket front bumper.

The only downside is this size tyre does impact gearing a bit. Although I'd say on-road you adapt very quickly and it will soon very completely normal. As though it should have come from the factory like this. I admit, I haven't yet towed with the bigger tyres. Which pulling away in 1st with the max rated load might well be noticeably different, but I'll to confirm at another time on this.

For me, another issue with the Jimny is the low speed crawl in 1st gear (manual, auto is probably fine). For trialling it just isn't slow enough in standard form and with this size tyres it is slightly worse, although not as noticeable as you might think. I have still competed in some events and driven trials sections. But I would very much like to re-gear at some point.

If you are prepared to spend out on 16" rims there are other tyre choices. But narrow 16" rims are limited to alloys, I could not find any steel rims. Which makes the rims very pricey. My personal preference for off road use is narrow tyres. A 205 x 16 (205/80R16) is the same height as the 235/75R15, but 30mm more narrow. I didn't go this route due to cost. And an even better tyre size IMO would be a 6.50 x 16 which is slightly taller and slightly more narrow than the 205. But this size is not generally sold in the UK. But is available in other markets. I found some in France, but would have had to pay a premium over the 205's.

From here you are then getting into much bigger tyres where I honestly believe a re-gear would be essential to have with them. These being:

30.9.50R15
31.10.50R15

245/75R16
235/85R16
7.00 x 16
7.50 x 16

The tallest being approx 31.8", so a reasonable increase over what I currently have. Incidentally a 235/85R16 or 7.50 x 16 are standard Land Rover sizes. So on a Jimny should enable the Jimny to roll over obstacles much like a Land Rover can.

IMO, these would be about the max sizes I'd expect to see on a Jimny without major axle, transmission & power mods.

Sorry, bit of a tyre tangent there. However, if my Jimny wasn't my daily driver (well when I bought it pre-covid, I was expecting to do 3 hrs of commuting each day in it) and if I didn't also have Land Rover's, I'd certainly be looking at running bigger tyres and more lift than I currently am.

Back to suspension....

I'm running the Black Raptor Premium 2" kit. Although I looked at lots of kits. The reason for going for the Black Raptor kit was that it offered a true 2" lift (I also fitted 15mm blocks above the front springs to cater for the aftermarket bumper and eventual winch. On stock springs you could see how it was sagging.

This way I got the most lift I could for this kind of kit, exceeding the lift offered by Old Man Emu or Pedders.

The Black Raptor kit also includes extended brake lines front and rear. As travel is increased on both axles. I did before and after RTI (ramp travel index) tests and did indeed gain about 2" of travel all round. In order to do this on the front you will need to move the front cross member bracket down out of the way. Some kits offer some extended plates, while others like the Black Raptor kit offer a completely new bracket. I personally believe this bracket is actually a propshaft safety loop (to catch the prop if it fails to prevent it digging into the ground and launching the car in the air, rather than a structural member.

Many kits do not address this and just give you shocks that are not long enough to require the bracket moving. I suspect on those kits you gain either little or no extra travel and may even potentially be worse off. Lets say they give you 1/2" of extra travel, but if they also lift the vehicle 1.75", then your "neutral" position at ride height, means you have less available downward/droop travel, by 1.25", in real terms you'll have lost travel, making it more likely to get cross axled and lift a front wheel, or cause the rear to extend more, making the vehicle feel less balanced.

The only way to know for sure is to try and find the open and closed shock lengths to see how much travel is offered. But without the bracket being addressed, no kit will be offering much front end improvements.

At the rear you just need longer brake lines. The Pedders kit does offer these, but again, without knowing what the shock lengths are, it is impossible to say how much travel they offer.

Another thing to watch for, is some kits also come with extended bump stops. I forget which brand it was, but it was still only a 2" kit. The extended bump stop means you'll have less compression. And on a 2" lift, I can only surmise that their shocks are the wrong length (their closed length is too long) and this is a workaround compromise to make sure the shocks don't bottom out. Less up travel simply means less total travel. Unless the lift is big.


The limitation with the Jimny is the shock location is quite fixed and it is not easy to move the top mount. On a Land Rover, you simply relocate the top/upper shock mount and you can fit a much longer shock in their. Which means you can still maintain the standard ride height, but have masses of suspension travel in compression and droop. With the Jimny you can't move the top of the shock up. So the longer the shock gets, you then have to limit up travel. Hence why you get 3 & 4" kits. Its not so much the lift, but in order to get longer shocks you have to lift the vehicle to maintain any sort of up travel.


If we were in Oz there are certainly some interesting options for the suspension. However, I'd still have to say the Black Raptor kit is in my opinion leaps and bounds ahead of the other kits available for the UK/EU market if you are wanting to improve off road ability and would still likely be my choice even if I was in Oz.

You can get the Black Raptor kit with cheaper shocks, although I have the Premium adjustable shocks. It is no Rolls Royce, but I would say it rides and handles better on road now than a stock Jimny. And is much better off road.

It "almost" matches a standard Land Rover 90 for suspension flex. And might even be closer if you looked at disconnecting the front anti-roll bar too. And feels noticeably better off road.


Sorry, I know this is a long post.


But I personally find suspension makes such a huge difference off road. Not just in comfort and ability, but also confidence and stability.

My brother has somewhat extreme suspension travel on his 90, despite the fact it rides at almost stock ride height and handles and rides better than a standard 90. But off road it feels unstoppable and completely rock solid, even compared to other 90's. We had a section setup earlier in the year that would cause a stock 90 to lift a wheel in fairly dramatic fashion on a side slope, it felt horrid from the drivers seat, a real bottom clenching affair. With more suspension travel, my brothers 90 felt completely stable and worry free to drive over the same bit. It really was dramatic how different it felt and how much confidence it gives you as a driver.

Now, don't get me wrong. The traction control in the Jimny gives it a huge advantage over an old Land Rover with no traction control and open diffs only. But good suspension is such a game changer in my opinion.

Here is my brothers 90, to show how extreme the suspension can flex.... do remember this has almost no lift and rides/handles better than a standard one too!

 


This is my Jimny on the 235/75R15 tyres and with the 2" Black Raptor lift. The rear flexes ok, although nothing like the Land Rover.
 


But as you can see, it'll still lift a front wheel fairly easily:
 

But I would say it is a night and day difference compared to a stock Jimny.

There is a detachable front anti-roll bar available for the Jimny, which is designed for 2" kits and offers a slightly stiffer rate than the stock anti-roll bar and as it detaches, should free up the front suspension quite a bit off road. It is a bit pricey, but for trialling use it would likely be a worthwhile investment.


Now don't get me wrong, I honestly don't think there is anything wrong with the Pedders kit or many of the others. They will all lift the vehicle and may well offer better on road manners too, depending on their exact spec. And will give some advantages off road. But I do believe for off roading there are better options out there.

If I where doing it again, I think I'd go for the 3 or 4" Black Raptor kit, detachable front anti-roll bar and something like a 7.50 x 16 tyre. But this would be vastly more expensive than what I currently have.