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Is there ANY advantage to vacuum hubs?

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18 Nov 2019 14:28 #215735 by RiverRatJimny
Hi
So i've got my Jimny back from MOT last week. It had the kingpin bearings and seals done both sides. Yay! Now I've got no 4x4. Boo! Just a flashing light. It's a manual stick for the transfer - no switch (1998 Jimny). I guess it'll be to do with the vacuum system on the front hubs? (although I haven't looked and haven't taken it back to the garage that did the MOT). I might just go ahead and get some freewheeling hubs - as far as I can see there is no disadvantage to free wheeling hubs. Seem much more reliable to me. Is there any reason I should stay with the vacuum system?
Questions- Is installation easy enough? What happens to the vacuum pipes? I'm looking at getting the AVM hubs.
Thanks

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18 Nov 2019 15:45 #215738 by jackonlyjack
Disadvantage.....you will get wet/muddy feet if you forget to lock your hubs
Fitting is an easy process
Vac pipes can be removed or left in place If you remove just blank off whats left
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18 Nov 2019 19:29 #215748 by Scimike
As it worked before you took it in its likely a result of the kingpin rebuild as you need to remove the flexible vacuum pipes off the swivel housing.
So check they have put the pipes back (in the correct order) or if they have damaged the flexible pipe or metal pipe during the work. Not blaming them, they are old pipes and fittings so easy to damage during the work if not careful.
Also it's possible they packed the vacuum hub with grease if not aware of the Jimny's operation, this will also stop it working. You could remove the vacuum hub and check it's fairly grease free.
As to the good and bad:-
Pro -
You can engage when you want from the comfort of your seat
So long as the pipes are ok (they rust), for the majority it is a reliable system.

Con
It's likely to fail just when you need it, particular if the system is not used much and the rust has set in
It's more complex (harder to fix) than a set of manual Free Wheel hubs, the easy fix option.

Hope you get it fixed, but nothing wrong with manual AVM if you want to go this route.

Mike
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19 Nov 2019 05:24 #215755 by Lambert
The standard system is a double isolation system where the transfer box isolates the front drive so propshaft, diff and half shafts and then the hubs isolate the wheels meaning the in 4x2 the front drive line is static not being driven by either the engine or the front wheels. Allegedly this is to save wear and tear and supposedly fuel. You will be lucky to be able to measure any difference over the lifetime of the car. With manual hubs yes you have to get out of the car to engage them but it is perfectly safe to engage them once at the start of a run on the lanes or the pay and play and then disengage them at the end of the day before going home, but then using the 4x4 selection buttons as needed throughout the day and not engage and disengage the hubs every time the terrain changes. In reality many people with manual hubs leave them locked all the time and don't suffer any more failure than those who switch them as needed. Also the other major factor is that you can leave the hubs disengaged and then select 4x4lo meaning you have a simple way of using the low gearing on high traction surfaces without doing the nasty to the transfer box which is useful if you are manoeuvring a trailer creeping in a traffic jam.

Dreadnaught (black 2011)

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19 Nov 2019 16:26 #215778 by yakuza
I have had suzukis with manual hubs for 20 years and I love the push button and vacuum system. Mine just works and I rarely hear of any problems with them here in Norway.
Vacuum system and hubs must be maintained as the manual hubs as well. With the wrong lube they will stick when the temperature creeps down to minus 15 C both manual and auto hubs.

2005 Jimny M16A VVT, 235 BFG MT, 2" Trailmaster, 17%/87% high/low gears.

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20 Nov 2019 21:03 #215807 by kirkynut
Have a quick look to see if there's anything obvious. If not, get manual hubs to keep your sanity. Trying to find the fault can be a nightmare.

Have a look through the posts from the last few weeks as there's one on how to block the vacuum pipes to stop the light flashing.

I have fixed hubs, which is no different from leaving manual hubs in locked all the time.

As for the grease thickening up, this isn't an issue in the UK. Grease will harden over time anywhere. A regrease every 5 years is not much hassle, or less often.

Or fix your ones as per my guide at the top of the technical section.

Kirkynut

The underdog often starts the fight, and occasionally the upper dog deserves to win - Edgar Watson Howe.

My Jimny Thread Here: www.bigjimny.com/index.php/forum/8-my-ji...on-continues?start=0

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22 Nov 2019 19:25 - 22 Nov 2019 19:27 #215878 by Caelite
I've decided today after a few hours freezing my ass off trying to troubleshoot my 4WD system that I'm going to fit manual hubs to mine.

Out of curiosity, does anyone know the real difference between the AVM 457 and 457 High Performance (black vs red)?
www.ks-international.com/free-wheel-hub-manual-pair-6423.html
www.ks-international.com/free-wheel-hub-...air-manual-6424.html

Are the red ones worth an extra £30, also, KS international is the best place to get AVM hubs right? They seem a good 10-15£ cheaper than everywhere else.

205/75r15 General Grabber AT3s, 40mm spacer lift, 15x6 ET5 steel modulars, Ignis Recaros, Green Stuff pads, Osram Nightbreaker bulbs
Last edit: 22 Nov 2019 19:27 by Caelite.

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22 Nov 2019 19:50 #215879 by jackonlyjack
I have the jimnybits cheap one's £100 ish no issues as yet
and i have pushed them hard off-road :)
Member sniper has AVM red one's fitted

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22 Nov 2019 20:01 #215880 by Riccy
AVM Red tops have an alloy outer casing (instead of chromed plastic) and supposedly stronger internals. Mixed benefits in that the alloy casing isnt lacquered, meaning they corrode and dont look great after a year or two, and the extra strength would only be a need if running huge tyres.

KS mckenzie is the cheapest spot to get the red tops, probably the normal ones as well. Good quick service in my experience as well :-)

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22 Nov 2019 20:01 - 22 Nov 2019 20:08 #215881 by HUN
I have red AVM hubs. I did think difference is the colour only. Plastic sounds dodgy for me.

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Last edit: 22 Nov 2019 20:08 by HUN.

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23 Nov 2019 09:53 #215887 by Lambert
My normal black tops are aluminium outers with plastic internal switching mechanisms. The actual locking components seem to be sintered powdered metal. My last set gave 5 years of service before a bearing surface failed. The polished aluminium will stay shiny until the first exposure to road salt then it dulls within the month.

Dreadnaught (black 2011)

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23 Nov 2019 17:23 - 23 Nov 2019 17:24 #215901 by Scimike

Lambert wrote: My last set gave 5 years of service before a bearing surface failed.

Is that good or bad in comparison to other types or makes available?
Would have expected them to be fit and forget items.
Last edit: 23 Nov 2019 17:24 by Scimike.

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