M16a VVT engine swap

My understanding is that itb is individual throttle bodies as in one per cylinder on a custom set of risers to the inlet ports on the head. These are often recycled motorbike parts.

The set up from RZ Crew on my build thread is an injection plenum with a single 70mm throttle body. 

ITB's (Individual Throttle Body) give a throttle body to each cylinder, so four on the M series. 
 

I chose the plenum set up over the ITB's in an effort to find low down grunt, a plenum is better for early torque. ITB's are more an ultimate power set up and a fair bit more expensive. 

You could get a plenum set up for an early VVT (55mm?) throttle body (cable) but you need to consider your end goal to avoid spending twice.... With the set up you mention, you could easily find the standard TB wanting. Then changing the inlet port on the plenum to suit a larger TB will cost, both money and time off the car. Be careful if you don't know much, its easy to mis-match parts and get poor results after spending a ton of cash. 

If you find yourself near j29 M1 anytime, I'd happily show you how my car drives.

sniper

wrote:

My understanding is that itb is individual throttle bodies as in one per cylinder on a custom set of risers to the inlet ports on the head. These are often recycled motorbike parts.

Ah, my mistake.  I was thinking ITB as 'inlet throttle body' and using that to differentiate between that and the throttle body ( part with the butterfly valve that bolts onto the manifold).  Totally wrong, every day is a school day though.

wrote:

The set up from RZ Crew on my build thread is an injection plenum with a single 70mm throttle body. 

I chose the plenum set up over the ITB's in an effort to find low down grunt, a plenum is better for early torque. ITB's are more an ultimate power set up and a fair bit more expensive. 

You could get a plenum set up for an early VVT (55mm?) throttle body (cable) but you need to consider your end goal to avoid spending twice.... With the set up you mention, you could easily find the standard TB wanting. Then changing the inlet port on the plenum to suit a larger TB will cost, both money and time off the car. Be careful if you don't know much, its easy to mis-match parts and get poor results after spending a ton of cash. 

If you find yourself near j29 M1 anytime, I'd happily show you how my car drives.

sniper

Yes, the plenum setup would be better for me.  I totally misunderstood the acronym ITB. 

It's the RZ manifold (AIR-S-ZC31NA) I was looking at getting as it is suitable for the 2009 engine.  It has a 60mm opening, so I thought I'll try and source something to fit that and make the most of the potential flow, that's the end goal, just maximise that and no more. Was your 70mm body an aftermarket part, or did you source it from a vehicle, or modify an existing one?  Also, on the RZ manifold, it has the TB mounting plate on the horizontal plane, did you have to get a 90 degree fitting to make the TB the correct orientation (upright?), or does that matter?

I wasn't sure about what I could fit to the RZ manifold because, of course, the bolt offset for fitting a TB may also restrict what will fit.  I would ask the guys at RZ, but they would probably give me information regarding swift sports and I may end up buying useless parts as you mentioned.

Once the inlet is sorted, I can chuck a less restrictive exhaust on and that should be good enough for a tune.  But that will come at a later date, depending on the budget and what is needed for engine management, be that a flashed M13 ecu or a replacement, that's for another financial year I think  , my rainy day fund will only be good enough for a drought.

Thanks very much for the offer, I'd love to see the motor in action, looks amazing and I've made my way through most of your thread. But as a jimny driver, I don't do much long distance driving, however, that's very kind of you to offer.

monstarghs wrote: bore size is the same across all 3 versions of the m series, they get the different cubic size from changing the crank and rod length to get more stroke, and you can get a 1.6 in aus its just rare as not many ppl who got the swifts went for the 1.6 when it was cheaper for the 1.5, so there are a butt load of 1.5 swift motors out there, im personally getting a 1.5 from the wreckers locally for under $500 next week, may as well look at dropping forged internals and running a turbo if you think a 1.5 isnt gonna cut it on its own, but heck going from 60kw to 90kw is not nothing to snease at

Very good piont monstarghs, i thought swift sport engine had stronger crank and rods, not planning to turbo it but wondering if the longer stroke crank, rods and higher compression pistons would fit the M13A, so it would look standard
I did see a 2011 bigjimny article about someone asking same question but couldn't find a reply


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I can't recommend the plenum/TB set up as yet, I still haven't fitted it to the car..... It might be one of those mismatches yet lol... The 70mm TB is a race unit for a Honda B series that RZC produce, unproven in my application but has worked well on tuned swift sports. Suzuki is a much bigger brand in Asia and the tuning/parts industry is bigger and more varied.

If you decide to order a plenum, give me a shout and I'll dig out my invoice number for reference, with that you'd only need to decide on TB size/model.

sniper
 

Some here said the early Liana TB was bigger than the VVT jimny 46mm. My Liana had also 46mm TB.
I bought a m16 inlet manifold from a GV only to find it was the same as the Jimny m13. Same ports and sizes. Did not buy the TB as Google couldn't tell me for sure it was any bigger.
Still Thinking of polishing and porting the other inlet to see if there could be an improvement.

Too big TB could Just slow down the airflow and make it flow less good and make a mess as well.

wrote:

I can't recommend the plenum/TB set up as yet, I still haven't fitted it to the car..... It might be one of those mismatches yet lol... The 70mm TB is a race unit for a Honda B series that RZC produce, unproven in my application but has worked well on tuned swift sports. Suzuki is a much bigger brand in Asia and the tuning/parts industry is bigger and more varied.

If you decide to order a plenum, give me a shout and I'll dig out my invoice number for reference, with that you'd only need to decide on TB size/model.

sniper


 

I'll definitely give you a shout once I get one.  I've not seen much about swift throttle body upgrades on the rz site.  I might contact them and see what they say is available to fit the manifold.  

I did think an older Vitara M16 engine might have a cable throttle body that could be used (perhaps some of the many other Vitara engine codes), probably just be the same diameter as the standard swift and maybe the same diameter as the m13 as Yakuza mentioned, so maybe no point putting an aftermarket inlet plenum on if thats being used.

Actually, I should ask riccy of he got anywhere with his rav4 tb.

ok, so another possibility that may save me a bit of cash.  The engine I've purchased still has the swift throttle body plenum attached.  I'm thinking that if the diameter of the intake duct is wider than the M13 plenum duct, I could fit that and find an aftermarket swift sized TB to fit the swift plenum.  Might make finding one that fits easier if there's a decent mod market for the zc31s swift.  The ducting from the airbox and breather should be easy to sort out with a custom silicone intake hose.

I'm looking forwards to getting started on this, should hopefully be within the next couple of weeks.

If you have the complete injection system on the engine, fit that as it is, I think it will fit?

Then run it with a standalone ecu.

You get the sport output (125/134bhp) and if fitted with a free flowing exhaust, you should exceed it with a custom map.

Cheapest route and guaranteed results. Probably much more sensible than what I'm doing.... lol.

sniper

When i did my swap I did not bother to use the manifolds or nothing from the m16 as they were of the wrong orientation from the front wheel drive donor.
Everything would be in the wrong place for my jimny.
I just looked at this at a glance and found i would not bother with it as there would be very little or no hp-gain and to much trouble not having a "sport" donor though.

having a standard set-up in the engine bay has its benefits for servicing and spares but if there is a significant gain then maybe it is worth it.

Hence the reason for me buying the GV m16 plenum that had the correct orientation but as i found was the same as the jimny one.
Not sure but i do not think there is no m16 with the correct orientation with a "sport" version. I would however try a slight bigger TB if I could find one. 

As for my exhaust I have changed the constritced heat isolated tube between the two original cats to a 2" one, removed the cat no 1 in the original manifold, and replaced cat no 2 with an aftermarket bigger one. rarely get a fault code, but just reset it and have passed a few MOT now since i did it.