M16a VVT engine swap

Hello folks,
Not been here for a while since I refurbed my jimny.  I vowed that would be the last of the big jobs, but now I've gone and bought a Suzuki Swift sport 1.6 VVT engine to throw in.  I've got a couple of questions that you knowledgeable gents may be able to help me with.  

I'm going to be running the engine on the stock M13 ECU as I want the simplest engine swap to get me up and running, mainly so I don't have to get my shopping on the bike.  I wondered if there was a piggy-back unit that you could use to manage fuelling and timing as I plan to take it to a rolling road for tuning eventually, just to make sure I'm using it as efficiently as possible with the new engine, air filter and exhaust. Perhaps the standard ECU can just be flashed? Hopefully a dyno tuner would have done a few swift sports, but maybe Jimny ecus are quite different? My stock ecu is from an 07.

Also, I know a lot of guys don't like the existing vacuum operated hub system, but I plan to keep this.  I'm not sure if the vacuum pickup on the swift engine would be from the same place.  I've not actually received the engine yet, so haven't been able to look.  Has anyone who's done this mod felt the need to keep the existing vacuum system operational and if so, where did you pick up the vacuum line from? 

Hopefully most of this will be a straight swap, as I've read a lot of posts on here and a few other places.

The standard M13A VVT ecu with 1600 injectors is the compromise that most people run with when doing the M16A swap and it works ok, it gives a big improvement over the 1300. Fuelling is not super accurate though but at no additional cost, a fair compromise, that most are happy with.

The Denso ecu is supposedly writeable but I have never found someone able to do it..... 

I recently had a standalone ECU fitted and the difference in tune is quite remarked, and in my mind, worth the cost of £1200. A bargain find at Dynotech in Ripley. Supply and install with rolling road set up. Have a look at my thread "tread lightly".

I would suggest getting the exhaust sorted before mapping, they respond really well to a free flowing system. Torque figures are much improved.

sniper

 

RE vacuum hubs, if you look at your exisiting setup it's fed by just one small vacuum port on the inlet manifold. This should be very easy to replicate on the swift engine, either with an existing port or by adding your own.

ETA Presumably you will be using the Jimny manifold anyway, so the vacuum system will be unchanged.

Hi Sniper,

Been having a read if your thread. Very nicely done. Although I've been thinking of more ways to spend money that I don't have now after reading.

Ripley is a fair distance for me, but if the place near me in Aberdeen can't/won't do work on my engine, I may have to consider travelling a little further to get what I want. Not that many tuners with rolling roads up my way. But that will be a bit in the future for me once I've sorted out inlet and outlet stuff.

I already have a stainless system on the 1.3 (minus the manifold), however that may be worth considering if I can get one for a decent price. Did you just port your 4-2-1 to fit the 1.6? I would have to modify my existing system if I fitted one as the original manifold ends a bit higher up.

Hi Busta,

For now I'm leaving the jimny manifold on, so that should be fine.  But a new one might be on the cards before a tuning, as I would prefer the fuelling to be correct and not sure just porting the existing one will do. I'd feel cheated if I was missing out on some gains if I just spent a bit more on throttle body and manifold.

Hi Mike G
Very interesting project your doing a lot of potential, I've been wanting to do the same for some time but I'm in Australia and early swift sport motors are hard to get and been told after 2012 motors are harder to get sorted, be interested to see how yours works out
How hard is it to get swift sport engine over your way, would it be possible to ship one to Australia?

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Hi Neil, think they are reasonably easy to get here, although I did have to wait a bit to get a 2009 version of the SSS. Plenty of guys have done this conversion, hence why I feel comfortable doing the swap.  If I was in Australia, I'd have been considering putting in the M18 engine. Can't get them here, rare as hens teeth.

Mike G wrote: Hi Neil, think they are reasonably easy to get here, although I did have to wait a bit to get a 2009 version of the SSS. Plenty of guys have done this conversion, hence why I feel comfortable doing the swap.  If I was in Australia, I'd have been considering putting in the M18 engine. Can't get them here, rare as hens teeth.

Can't see you will have any problems, depending on budget and what want to achieve, Haltec sell standard alones they already have bace maps, lots of performance information and parts
Be interesting to see what you achieve

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The only real difference between the various M16A applications is compression ratio. Valve train, port sizes and cam profiles are the same from 1300 to 1600 sport as far as I found out (happy to be corrected. 

The various induction systems combined with compression changes (9.5-1 to 11.1-1) give the varying outputs. 

All VVT engines are 11-1 or 11.1-1 so the only real changes are induction.

If you fit the sport engine without the induction system, it may as well be a standard 1600VVT. There is no real world difference.

My engine is early Liana VVT and has 11.1-1 compression, essentially the same engine as the sport but even with a custom map, I'm only at 98.3bhp in the Jimny as opposed to 106bhp in the Liana, that's down to the smaller throttle body/inlet manifold from the 1300 being used. 

Induction and exhaust systems are both quite restrictive across all ranges (in an effort to meet emissions targets) as standard, even on the sport.

ITB's/ecu and a good exhaust system can release over 175bhp from an otherwise standard engine.

Running the 1600 on 1300 induction works reasonably well, improves a jimny no end. I'd suggest that most owners will be very happy at that. Going further gets expensive and the improvements get smaller.

sniper







 

sniper wrote: The only real difference between the various M16A applications is compression ratio. Valve train, port sizes and cam profiles are the same from 1300 to 1600 sport as far as I found out (happy to be corrected. 

The various induction systems combined with compression changes (9.5-1 to 11.1-1) give the varying outputs. 

All VVT engines are 11-1 or 11.1-1 so the only real changes are induction.

If you fit the sport engine without the induction system, it may as well be a standard 1600VVT. There is no real world difference.

My engine is early Liana VVT and has 11.1-1 compression, essentially the same engine as the sport but even with a custom map, I'm only at 98.3bhp in the Jimny as opposed to 106bhp in the Liana, that's down to the smaller throttle body/inlet manifold from the 1300 being used. 

Induction and exhaust systems are both quite restrictive across all ranges (in an effort to meet emissions targets) as standard, even on the sport.

ITB's/ecu and a good exhaust system can release over 175bhp from an otherwise standard engine.

Running the 1600 on 1300 induction works reasonably well, improves a jimny no end. I'd suggest that most owners will be very happy at that. Going further gets expensive and the improvements get smaller.

sniper







 

Thanks sniper,good bit of info ,food for thought
With the bore size being the same between M13,15 and 16 is it possible to put high compression pistons in the M13A ?

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bore size is the same across all 3 versions of the m series, they get the different cubic size from changing the crank and rod length to get more stroke, and you can get a 1.6 in aus its just rare as not many ppl who got the swifts went for the 1.6 when it was cheaper for the 1.5, so there are a butt load of 1.5 swift motors out there, im personally getting a 1.5 from the wreckers locally for under $500 next week, may as well look at dropping forged internals and running a turbo if you think a 1.5 isnt gonna cut it on its own, but heck going from 60kw to 90kw is not nothing to snease at

Thanks Sniper,

That's exactly what I needed to know, perfect. Looks like my wishlist/shopping cart now includes:

An ITB from rzcrew
An aftermarket (?) 60mm throttle body to fit the ITB
New exhaust manifold
Exhaust with sports cat

After all that it will need a tune. I better get saving.

One question though. Would you recommend any aftermarket throttle bodies for an aftermarket ITB? I wish I knew a bit more about these performance upgrades, but I'm not a mechanic.