× A place for more technical discussions. Please make sure you post in the correct section on the site, this way it keeps the site tidy AND ensures you get a more relevant answer.

M16a VVT engine swap

More
01 Aug 2022 18:56 #244359 by Mike G
Replied by Mike G on topic M16a VVT engine swap

When i did my swap I did not bother to use the manifolds or nothing from the m16 as they were of the wrong orientation from the front wheel drive donor.
Everything would be in the wrong place for my jimny.
I just looked at this at a glance and found i would not bother with it as there would be very little or no hp-gain and to much trouble not having a "sport" donor though.

having a standard set-up in the engine bay has its benefits for servicing and spares but if there is a significant gain then maybe it is worth it.

Hence the reason for me buying the GV m16 plenum that had the correct orientation but as i found was the same as the jimny one.
Not sure but i do not think there is no m16 with the correct orientation with a "sport" version. I would however try a slight bigger TB if I could find one. 

As for my exhaust I have changed the constritced heat isolated tube between the two original cats to a 2" one, removed the cat no 1 in the original manifold, and replaced cat no 2 with an aftermarket bigger one. rarely get a fault code, but just reset it and have passed a few MOT now since i did it.

It's a nightmare trying to find something to fit any inlet housing just using google.  Hopefully I have more luck when I get the bits in my hands and maybe go for a stroll in the scrap yard.  I can't see any modding forums with solid info.  But I'll be running with m13 parts for starters, before I decide to part with more cash.  It may even come to resin printing an interface if I find one with the wrong bolt offset.

2" Trailmaster suspension lift, 2"body lift, snorkel, full breather kit, 29" steel wheels with BFG tyres, tinted rear windows, CRT CB radio with modulator antenna mounted on rear, dog cage and tray in the back.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Riccy
  • Riccy's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Banned
  • Banned
    Registered
  • J999 MNY Bashing around Carlisle
More
01 Aug 2022 19:17 #244361 by Riccy
Replied by Riccy on topic M16a VVT engine swap
Hiya, yes I am lurking in the background. 

The rav4 throttle body had potential if an adapter could be made. With 3d printing now an option i would say it was worth a look again. The same rav4 TB could probably be found on most 90's toyota's with the 2.0l engine. its a cable operated model on the rav4 so pretty easy to adapt for a jimny, Much easier than the GSXR600 ITBs on mine 

If there is further info to be had on running the swift inlet manifold it is to be found with Dave Marsh Racing, who are the only ones i know of to have modified a swift inlet setup to work in a jimny. I cant say what inlet control they are using as the swift uses a drive-by-wire system, totally incompatible with the jimny setup, so they must have a replacement TB in there somehow or the ecu to a more modern system

J999 MNY, ULYSSES M18 VVT with ITB's Dyno tested at 130hp

Pickup/tipper, R7me gearbox & 6.4 Rocklobster, 31" Toyo MT, 2x ARB air locker 3.9 diffs in braced axles, 6" total lift, Floating rear conversion, Raptor painted, CB, Recaro's, Caged, etc, etc...

www.youtube.com/user/riclemus

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
02 Aug 2022 00:05 #244364 by Mike G
Replied by Mike G on topic M16a VVT engine swap

If you have the complete injection system on the engine, fit that as it is, I think it will fit?

Then run it with a standalone ecu.

You get the sport output (125/134bhp) and if fitted with a free flowing exhaust, you should exceed it with a custom map.

Cheapest route and guaranteed results. Probably much more sensible than what I'm doing.... lol.

sniper

I think once I move away from the M13 parts, I will more than likely need to look at standalone ECU to run it.  

I'll certainly be having a look at using as much standard parts as I can for the inlet.  I'd be pleased to get some free power, every pound is a prisoner   

I only wanted a little extra power, but now I have another project on my hands.  Ah well, can't take the money to the grave. RIP savings.
 

2" Trailmaster suspension lift, 2"body lift, snorkel, full breather kit, 29" steel wheels with BFG tyres, tinted rear windows, CRT CB radio with modulator antenna mounted on rear, dog cage and tray in the back.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
02 Aug 2022 00:26 - 02 Aug 2022 00:55 #244365 by Mike G
Replied by Mike G on topic M16a VVT engine swap

Hiya, yes I am lurking in the background. 

The rav4 throttle body had potential if an adapter could be made. With 3d printing now an option i would say it was worth a look again. The same rav4 TB could probably be found on most 90's toyota's with the 2.0l engine. its a cable operated model on the rav4 so pretty easy to adapt for a jimny, Much easier than the GSXR600 ITBs on mine 

If there is further info to be had on running the swift inlet manifold it is to be found with Dave Marsh Racing, who are the only ones i know of to have modified a swift inlet setup to work in a jimny. I cant say what inlet control they are using as the swift uses a drive-by-wire system, totally incompatible with the jimny setup, so they must have a replacement TB in there somehow or the ecu to a more modern system

The RAV4 TB does look a good candidate, provided it fits onto the 1.6 manifold.  I'm sure I could upgrade my cad skills from tinkercad to fusion and have a crack at an interface adapter, plenty of time for prototyping in-between mods.  Ideally I'd like to keep running with a snorkel, so the bike manifold might not be an option for me.

I had a look at the DMR facebook page and seen his jimny was managed with an ecumaster.  That's a serious bit of kit!  Think I'll be looking at something a bit lower down the market for engine management. Maybe something like the speeduino would fit the bill, I noticed Keithy had mentioned it in a previous forum post. I'm alright with computers, but not sure I'd understand fully how to use it.  Might be a very steep learning curve, but I guess, if it doesn't work out, I cacn just unplug it and put the old one back in.

Couldn't see any pics of the starboard side of the engine to get a look at what's fitted on the intake side, but it's not too impossible that he could still run a cabled TB.  I'm looking forwards to getting back home from work to get started on this project now.

2" Trailmaster suspension lift, 2"body lift, snorkel, full breather kit, 29" steel wheels with BFG tyres, tinted rear windows, CRT CB radio with modulator antenna mounted on rear, dog cage and tray in the back.
Last edit: 02 Aug 2022 00:55 by Mike G.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Riccy
  • Riccy's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Banned
  • Banned
    Registered
  • J999 MNY Bashing around Carlisle
More
03 Aug 2022 17:04 #244390 by Riccy
Replied by Riccy on topic M16a VVT engine swap
When I was looking at the rav4 tb it was based upon fitting it to the standard Jimny manifold and on the standard Jimny ecu. It looked a pretty straightforward thing because it uses the same TPS sensor for a start and the ICV can be swapped over (I think!, it was a while since I played with it, seem to remember having to clock the sensor around to work maybe). The final ideal would have been to port-n-polish the Jimny inlet manifold as much as possible then adapt to the bigger tb. I did have previous success with the grey jimny using an '04 liana tb, which was slightly bigger than the standard Jimny one and just swapped straight over with no fuss and ran well.

The big problem with the swift inlet is its intake position, which is basically into the bulkhead when mounted inline in a Jimny. It needs adapted or turned around somehow to be any use.

Don't be thinking you cant have a snorkel with ITBs though, I run mine with an enclosed pipercross airbox over the ITBs and connected by silicone tubing to the snorkel. It restricts it by 3hp on the dyno apparently. no big issue and it puts the induction roar right by the drivers window :laugh:

J999 MNY, ULYSSES M18 VVT with ITB's Dyno tested at 130hp

Pickup/tipper, R7me gearbox & 6.4 Rocklobster, 31" Toyo MT, 2x ARB air locker 3.9 diffs in braced axles, 6" total lift, Floating rear conversion, Raptor painted, CB, Recaro's, Caged, etc, etc...

www.youtube.com/user/riclemus

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Riccy
  • Riccy's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Banned
  • Banned
    Registered
  • J999 MNY Bashing around Carlisle
More
03 Aug 2022 17:43 #244392 by Riccy
Replied by Riccy on topic M16a VVT engine swap
Forgot to mention...

Big power (for a Jimny) means an awful lot of fuel consumption. Something to think about if you are doing a few miles in it. Ulysses averages about 140 miles to a full tank of fuel (roughly £70 round here currently). Most of that is because of it the extra weight and drag of it modified , big tyres and caged, but you will find running on the standard ECU isn't as much of a drop in MPG as my sort of fully tuned setup.
I would be interested to know how Sniper is getting on with MPG after his recent mods... I suspect it will be similar to mine

J999 MNY, ULYSSES M18 VVT with ITB's Dyno tested at 130hp

Pickup/tipper, R7me gearbox & 6.4 Rocklobster, 31" Toyo MT, 2x ARB air locker 3.9 diffs in braced axles, 6" total lift, Floating rear conversion, Raptor painted, CB, Recaro's, Caged, etc, etc...

www.youtube.com/user/riclemus

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
03 Aug 2022 21:54 - 03 Aug 2022 21:57 #244394 by Mike G
Replied by Mike G on topic M16a VVT engine swap

When I was looking at the rav4 tb it was based upon fitting it to the standard Jimny manifold and on the standard Jimny ecu. It looked a pretty straightforward thing because it uses the same TPS sensor for a start and the ICV can be swapped over (I think!, it was a while since I played with it, seem to remember having to clock the sensor around to work maybe). The final ideal would have been to port-n-polish the Jimny inlet manifold as much as possible then adapt to the bigger tb. I did have previous success with the grey jimny using an '04 liana tb, which was slightly bigger than the standard Jimny one and just swapped straight over with no fuss and ran well.

The big problem with the swift inlet is its intake position, which is basically into the bulkhead when mounted inline in a Jimny. It needs adapted or turned around somehow to be any use.

Don't be thinking you cant have a snorkel with ITBs though, I run mine with an enclosed pipercross airbox over the ITBs and connected by silicone tubing to the snorkel. It restricts it by 3hp on the dyno apparently. no big issue and it puts the induction roar right by the drivers window :laugh:


 

Yes, I did see you were fitting it to the jimmy manifold, I'm sure a couple of mm could be reclaimed from that manifold and a slightly larger TB would provide some benefit.  I may have to eventually bite the bullet and get an aftermarket intake manifold, but I have a 2" body lift, so may(or may not) have a little more room to play about with when fitting a throttle body.  I read online that the suzuki swift sport got a 55mm TB in place of the normal 45mm for regular swifts, so If I can get that inlet manifold to fit, I'll be onto a winner, I'm hopeful I could port 2mm around the diameter and get a 60mm TB on there.  It's all just pie in the sky at the minute and might all turn to dust when I actually get parts in my hands.

I was having a look on ebay (cyber scrappy) to see what other TBs were potential candidates and a few off the honda looked promising, hoping that if I see one up close it will confirm whether the original ICV can be bolted on or not.  I think once I'm home, I'll have a look round and see if I can't get one to measure up.

hmm, if I can't keep my motor as suzuki standard as possible, I might be tempted to use bike TBs, I have a couple of 600s in the garage, but I don't think they would be much use, would probably need a 1 or 1.3 litre set. I think I would enjoy the induction sound, unless it imploded my snorkel and crumpled it like a coke can.

2" Trailmaster suspension lift, 2"body lift, snorkel, full breather kit, 29" steel wheels with BFG tyres, tinted rear windows, CRT CB radio with modulator antenna mounted on rear, dog cage and tray in the back.
Attachments:
Last edit: 03 Aug 2022 21:57 by Mike G.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
03 Aug 2022 22:12 #244395 by Mike G
Replied by Mike G on topic M16a VVT engine swap

Forgot to mention...

Big power (for a Jimny) means an awful lot of fuel consumption. Something to think about if you are doing a few miles in it. Ulysses averages about 140 miles to a full tank of fuel (roughly £70 round here currently). Most of that is because of it the extra weight and drag of it modified , big tyres and caged, but you will find running on the standard ECU isn't as much of a drop in MPG as my sort of fully tuned setup.
I would be interested to know how Sniper is getting on with MPG after his recent mods... I suspect it will be similar to mine

I'm not too fussed about the fuel economy, I know I'm going to be taking a hit there, but I do less than 3000 miles a year in the jimny.  Maybe once I see how much a tank eats I may change my mind. Before I lifted by 4", new short bumpers on and put big tyres and steel wheels on, I used to get about 230 miles to a tank, however that was before e10 fuel, those days are gone.  I think I'm just over 200 miles to a tank now with e10 and my current mods, I'd have to check. I'm still looking into speeduino or megasquirt for engine management, but that will be a good bit later on before I consider that, so I'll chalk that up as my fuel saving for now.

It's a shame I don't have the option of using something like cylinder deactivation to save on fuel on a tuned engine, it would probably run like a bag of spanners on two cylinders and shake itself to bits, just don't think there's enough cylinders to deactivate  .

 

2" Trailmaster suspension lift, 2"body lift, snorkel, full breather kit, 29" steel wheels with BFG tyres, tinted rear windows, CRT CB radio with modulator antenna mounted on rear, dog cage and tray in the back.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
05 Aug 2022 08:01 #244397 by sniper
Replied by sniper on topic M16a VVT engine swap
I have not had enough "normal" driving time since the ecu install to be able to qualify it, but it is definitely using more fuel. 

I'm only on 30" ish tyres, getting bigger than that has more of an impact from what I've seen. I've got a set of 31's and haven't tried them as yet, I need to get over the desire to thrash about and try them.

Going back to TB's... I think the main flow restriction is in the inlet tract when the 1300 set up is used, bigger TB's can't beat the downstream restrictions and will only go so far.

sniper

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
13 Aug 2022 00:46 #244518 by Mike G
Replied by Mike G on topic M16a VVT engine swap
Ok, so I've been home for a few days now, but have been out of action with covid for the past few days.  However, I did manage to get a leakdown test done on the new (to me) engine.   All the cylinders are in the green, however the leakage for the cylinders are 1 = 10%, 2=20%, 3=30%, 4=25%. I didn't hear any leakage coming from intake, exhaust manifolds or anywhere else, but I know that more than 10% difference between each cylinder is not ideal, so I think I'll take the head off and have a look at it all.  It's likely to be the piston rings, but I will do some work on the head, mainly inspect the valve guides, if they are good I'll grind the valves if they require it, then perhaps skim the head if it's not quite true and if I get into it, I can port and polish the intakes.  I think if the rings need to be done, I'll have to send the cylinders away to get machined.  But at least it's a start and I know a bit more of what needs to be done.  Might as well get this all done whilst it's out of the jimny and I have a working motor to run around with.

2" Trailmaster suspension lift, 2"body lift, snorkel, full breather kit, 29" steel wheels with BFG tyres, tinted rear windows, CRT CB radio with modulator antenna mounted on rear, dog cage and tray in the back.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
30 Aug 2022 20:33 #244800 by Mike G
Replied by Mike G on topic M16a VVT engine swap
Not much of an update I'm afraid, but I have eventually got the engine in my garage. Took ages to get a stand for it.  Delivery costs were too much on most sellers.  Have a few other jobs taking priority over the engine now, but hope to get started on it sometime soon.  Here's a pic if the engine though 

2" Trailmaster suspension lift, 2"body lift, snorkel, full breather kit, 29" steel wheels with BFG tyres, tinted rear windows, CRT CB radio with modulator antenna mounted on rear, dog cage and tray in the back.
Attachments:

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Time to create page: 0.196 seconds
Powered by Kunena Forum

I hope you enjoy using this forum. Please consider making a donation towards the upkeep of this forum website.

We use cookies to give you the best online experience. Please let us know if you agree to all of these cookies. Accepting the Cookies also accepts the Disclaimers for the website.