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M13A (non VVT) Cold start
04 Mar 2025 11:46 #259692
by UKCarl
M13A (non VVT) Cold start was created by UKCarl
I've been chasing this issue for a while, managing with a "bodge" but want a full time fix so am hoping someone can help.
The car cold starts on the key (with no throttle) and idles nicely at 1100rpm. However the minute I touch the throttle it stumbles and becomes rough. This continues until fully warm.
What I have done:
Replaced the EGR valvue
Cleaned the trottle body
New Throttle position sensor *
New 02 sensor
* the throttle position sensor reads 5% open when it's closed (cannot adjust). When unplugged and just running on the MAP sensor the engine runs without stalling and stumbling but the idle wanders. Running it like this has been my "bodge"
Checking the OBD both temp sesnors are accurate. Attached is a couple of pics: 1) engine idling showing fueling. 2) 02 sensor output showing touching the throttle.
My thinking is the ECU is overfuelling when touching the throttle due to the TPS reading 5% when throttle is closed. Anoy other ideas?
Does anyone know a "good" p/n for one. The current one was bought from a motor factor and I don't want another duff one.
Thanks in advance
The car cold starts on the key (with no throttle) and idles nicely at 1100rpm. However the minute I touch the throttle it stumbles and becomes rough. This continues until fully warm.
What I have done:
Replaced the EGR valvue
Cleaned the trottle body
New Throttle position sensor *
New 02 sensor
* the throttle position sensor reads 5% open when it's closed (cannot adjust). When unplugged and just running on the MAP sensor the engine runs without stalling and stumbling but the idle wanders. Running it like this has been my "bodge"
Checking the OBD both temp sesnors are accurate. Attached is a couple of pics: 1) engine idling showing fueling. 2) 02 sensor output showing touching the throttle.
My thinking is the ECU is overfuelling when touching the throttle due to the TPS reading 5% when throttle is closed. Anoy other ideas?
Does anyone know a "good" p/n for one. The current one was bought from a motor factor and I don't want another duff one.
Thanks in advance
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07 Mar 2025 12:43 #259717
by Motacilla
Replied by Motacilla on topic M13A (non VVT) Cold start
What do the O2 and fuel trims look like at warm idle/blip?
I don't have info on part #s but we have a couple of serious Gen 3 experts here who should chime in.
I don't have info on part #s but we have a couple of serious Gen 3 experts here who should chime in.
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09 Mar 2025 00:37 #259729
by Vandoni
Replied by Vandoni on topic M13A (non VVT) Cold start
i don't know much of the electronic side of the jimny, but mine reads 12% throttle position at fully closed, and it runs pretty good (a little rich, but still starts no problem and goes like butter), no idea if that's the problem but i think i've read somewhere that it's normal for the TPS to not read 0 when closed
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09 Mar 2025 17:10 #259732
by CB1289
Replied by CB1289 on topic M13A (non VVT) Cold start
This sounds exactly like the problem I've had on my 2001 jimny for ages!! Keen to keep an eye on the thread to see if anyone has a solution.
Out of interest, what is the system you are using for your TPS info etc? Looks very handy!!
Out of interest, what is the system you are using for your TPS info etc? Looks very handy!!
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12 Mar 2025 06:28 - 12 Mar 2025 06:31 #259768
by danielm2
Replied by danielm2 on topic M13A (non VVT) Cold start
The TPS on mine also reads weird (16%) and works perfectly. The service manual states the normal range between 3 and 18 % at idle.
I would check fuel pressure and the small vacuum tubes first. Then fuel injectors. And MAF
I would check fuel pressure and the small vacuum tubes first. Then fuel injectors. And MAF
Last edit: 12 Mar 2025 06:31 by danielm2.
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15 Mar 2025 11:49 - 15 Mar 2025 12:06 #259808
by UKCarl
Replied by UKCarl on topic M13A (non VVT) Cold start
Thanks for the replies, good to know the TPS is OK. I've done some back to back testing with and without TPS.
With TPS (stalls when blipping throttle)
TPS: 5.9% at idle
Long term fuel trim at idle -2.3%
02 Sensor: 0.92v
When "blipping" the throttle the fuel trim momentarily goes to -5.5% and the O2 sensor to 0.4v
Without TPS (No issues when blipping throttle)
TPS: 100% reading according to OBD
Long term fuel trim at idle -8.6%
02 Sensor: 0.9v
When blipping the throttle the fuel trim momentarily goes to -2% and the 02 sensor is pretty stable but drops to 0.8v
So it seems with the TPS the long term fuel trim goes the opposite way (from -2.3% to -5.5%) making the engine go lean and stall. (the TPS % opening does increase when touching the throttle)
Without the TPS the fuel trim goes from -8.6% to -2% and the )2 sensor voltage only drops to 0.8V.
Any idea's why this is happening?
With TPS (stalls when blipping throttle)
TPS: 5.9% at idle
Long term fuel trim at idle -2.3%
02 Sensor: 0.92v
When "blipping" the throttle the fuel trim momentarily goes to -5.5% and the O2 sensor to 0.4v
Without TPS (No issues when blipping throttle)
TPS: 100% reading according to OBD
Long term fuel trim at idle -8.6%
02 Sensor: 0.9v
When blipping the throttle the fuel trim momentarily goes to -2% and the 02 sensor is pretty stable but drops to 0.8v
So it seems with the TPS the long term fuel trim goes the opposite way (from -2.3% to -5.5%) making the engine go lean and stall. (the TPS % opening does increase when touching the throttle)
Without the TPS the fuel trim goes from -8.6% to -2% and the )2 sensor voltage only drops to 0.8V.
Any idea's why this is happening?
Last edit: 15 Mar 2025 12:06 by UKCarl.
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