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Shocks and articulation

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20 Dec 2019 08:43 #216621 by Mole
Shocks and articulation was created by Mole
Morning.
This is somthing iv been thinking about but cant quite get my small amount of grey matter round. I have a 2" lift spring and shocks and with the anti roll bar disconnected it dose seem to keep the wheels on the ground quite well now my question is if I where to fit a 3" shocks but keep the springs at 2" would I gain any more articulation or with it twist mounts or just pop the springs out.

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20 Dec 2019 10:11 #216623 by Lambert
Replied by Lambert on topic Shocks and articulation
Doing that will increase your risk of bottoming out a damper on full compression which is as bad as it sounds. It also increases your risk of disconnecting a spring which is also as bad as it sounds. Then you're also going to need longer brake lines or you're going to have the entire axle droop being limited by the flexible pipe again as bad as it sounds. Mixing and matching different springs and dampers is something best done by professionals who know what they are doing and how to mitigate risks. As a layman I would suggest sticking with a proprietary solution like a full 3 inch lift kit with all the necessary matching parts.

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20 Dec 2019 11:36 #216626 by Mole
Replied by Mole on topic Shocks and articulation
Perfect thanks for that I didn't think it would be as simple as swapping them and is far more involved than I thought

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20 Dec 2019 15:35 #216629 by jackonlyjack
It can be done.......extended bump stops to stop shock bottoming out on upward travel
And spring clamps are available to hold spring to axle
I only run 2" springs and shocks.......But i have +3" radius arms all round......works very well in my opinion ;)
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22 Dec 2019 21:35 #216718 by 300bhpton
Replied by 300bhpton on topic Shocks and articulation

Lambert wrote: Doing that will increase your risk of bottoming out a damper on full compression which is as bad as it sounds. It also increases your risk of disconnecting a spring which is also as bad as it sounds. Then you're also going to need longer brake lines or you're going to have the entire axle droop being limited by the flexible pipe again as bad as it sounds. Mixing and matching different springs and dampers is something best done by professionals who know what they are doing and how to mitigate risks. As a layman I would suggest sticking with a proprietary solution like a full 3 inch lift kit with all the necessary matching parts.

I'm not disagreeing with most of your advice, but a 3" lift is not at all the same thing as a +3" longer shock.

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22 Dec 2019 21:45 #216719 by 300bhpton
Replied by 300bhpton on topic Shocks and articulation

Mole wrote: Morning.
This is somthing iv been thinking about but cant quite get my small amount of grey matter round. I have a 2" lift spring and shocks and with the anti roll bar disconnected it dose seem to keep the wheels on the ground quite well now my question is if I where to fit a 3" shocks but keep the springs at 2" would I gain any more articulation or with it twist mounts or just pop the springs out.

I know less about Jimny suspension than I do about Land Rovers, however the principles and physics will be the same.

If for example you removed your shocks completely and the springs, you could then see how far up the axle will travel and how far down. If this is less than the distance your shock allows, then a longer shock would not offer any benefits. If it is greater, then either the spring and/or the shock are limiting travel. I do not know if the Jimny deliberately uses the shock to limit the travel (some setups do), but not all.

Removing the shocks and springs would also allow you to see what does limit travel. Brake lines can be a point of limit, but not one that would physically stop an axle dropping, just one that would break should you let the axle drop that far. Bushes, joints and the design of the suspension are the most likely causes however.

To match a shock with your axle travel, you need one to extend far enough, but also to have a closed length that is shorter than the distance of the fully compressed axle. Else you will bottom out the shock, i.e. the shock will not go short enough. In the Land Rover we generally move the upper shock mount up, to allow a bigger shock with a longer stroke to fit, thus more droop (down travel) and the ability to close to the full compression (up travel). Sometimes you can limit the up travel by fitting extended bump stops, but to my mind this is just limiting your travel.

Once you have the shock length/stroke dialled in, you need a spring to match. Too short a spring and it'll fall out, too long and you'll get coil binding before full compression. Too hard and it simply won't compress. In the Land Rover world we also use retained springs, i.e. the spring attached top and bottom. This stops them falling out, but if they are too short they will get stretched at full droop, which isn't good and they will reduce the downward force if being stretched. We also sometimes use dislocating springs, which can fall out, then reseat themselves. These have pros and cons though.

Basically for a good off road setup you want to match the shocks and springs together with the available travel you have. In most 4x4 circles it is often all too easy to lift a vehicle for ground clearance and bigger wheels. But actually reduce the off road effectiveness of the suspension.

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23 Dec 2019 05:33 #216724 by Lambert
Replied by Lambert on topic Shocks and articulation

300bhpton wrote:

Lambert wrote: Doing that will increase your risk of bottoming out a damper on full compression which is as bad as it sounds. It also increases your risk of disconnecting a spring which is also as bad as it sounds. Then you're also going to need longer brake lines or you're going to have the entire axle droop being limited by the flexible pipe again as bad as it sounds. Mixing and matching different springs and dampers is something best done by professionals who know what they are doing and how to mitigate risks. As a layman I would suggest sticking with a proprietary solution like a full 3 inch lift kit with all the necessary matching parts.

I'm not disagreeing with most of your advice, but a 3" lift is not at all the same thing as a +3" longer shock.


I wasn't saying it was the same thing. I was saying that if you don't fully understand what you are doing with your suspension then mixing and matching different springs and dampers isn't a sensible option. If you don't know what you're doing sticking to a reputable kit of matching parts is a much safer and more effective option.

Dreadnaught (black 2011)

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24 Dec 2019 05:59 #216753 by zukebob
Replied by zukebob on topic Shocks and articulation
Mole: Two replies to your thread provide the best approach if you are looking for optimum articulation.

300bhpton gave you the best method of determining the ideal shock and spring choices for providing the most suspension travel,,,,,but only if you are willing to do enough research. This approach is discussed in a couple of earlier threads.

Lambert gave you the best option if you are looking at going with a system being engineered for you without having to start pulling your suspension apart. In that case, Jimny specific kits, like the Trail Master that Martin sells, would likely be best. Others have picked up springs and shocks separately (with success) but you should show reasonable care if doing so.

I started out with nothing & still have most of it left

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24 Dec 2019 07:18 #216755 by Mole
Replied by Mole on topic Shocks and articulation
Thank you for all the input there is certainly a lot more research than I first thought for the time being I'll leave it with the kit I have prehaps when I get some time illl looking in to it in more depth.

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26 Dec 2019 09:52 #216791 by kirkynut
Replied by kirkynut on topic Shocks and articulation
This is an age old discussion.

There's little benefit from having dislocating suspension or springs held in by clamps as at that point there's no weight on the drooping wheel for its tyre to make any grip on the ground.

It looks impressive but that's about all you achieve.

Kirkynut

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My Jimny Thread Here: www.bigjimny.com/index.php/forum/8-my-ji...on-continues?start=0

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26 Dec 2019 13:48 #216792 by Lambert
Replied by Lambert on topic Shocks and articulation


It even has a Jimny in it.

Dreadnaught (black 2011)

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26 Dec 2019 22:11 #216794 by kirkynut
Replied by kirkynut on topic Shocks and articulation
Cor, Blimey Lambert! I've not seen that one in a while!

So yes, forget articulation, get lockers!

Kirkynut

The underdog often starts the fight, and occasionally the upper dog deserves to win - Edgar Watson Howe.

My Jimny Thread Here: www.bigjimny.com/index.php/forum/8-my-ji...on-continues?start=0
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