Re:DrRobin's Northumberland Jimny

Lambert wrote:

I could be wrong but the last few posts on this look a lot like peer pressure.

Robin, your current jimny is already on taller suspension and tyres than your last one.

I am not feeling under any pressure to get a lift, I had been mulling it over before the suggestion on here, so I appreciated the comments and wanted to court opinion.  I realise that opinions on lifts are a Marmite question, but trusted opinions from people who have fitted a lift are very welcome, I will apply my usual filters.

A 2” lift could always be reversed, if I keep the stock parts which I would do.

Whilst I am not going for a lift this week, it might be on the wish list in the near future, the picture below of my recently fitted front diff protector is proof

 

At least the diff protector has done it’s job.

Robin

If you are planning on having a set of dedicated trial tyres, you may want to think about whether there is really a benefit in running expensive tyres like BFG MTs - the likelihood of wrecking a tyre is much higher, especially in quarry sites, so you may be better with a cheaper alternative and treat them as disposable.

Personally I have used more aggressive tyres for competition work where the rules allow - I'm currently running Malatesta Kaimans (essentially a copy of the old Simex pattern) on my Gen 3 - they're incredible in deep mud and also shrug off rock damage very well.

Just a thought...

DrRobin wrote:

I am not feeling under any pressure to get a lift, I had been mulling it over before the suggestion on here, so I appreciated the comments and wanted to court opinion.  I realise that opinions on lifts are a Marmite question, but trusted opinions from people who have fitted a lift are very welcome, I will apply my usual filters.

A 2” lift could always be reversed, if I keep the stock parts which I would do.

Robin

I didn't rush to fit a lift either. But I would say the stock Jimny lacks ground clearance, not just under the diffs, but the breakover angle and approach angler are not great either.

Also the Jinmy, despite having live axles, doesn't flex all that great in stock trim. Not when you compare to a standard Land Rover. The traction control masks this to some extent, but lifting a wheel is easy and I'd suspect common on trials sections.

For this reason I'd say a suspension upgrade is worthwhile.

As a side note, I didn't feel that stock suspension was too bad on road. A little under damped and uncontrolled at times. But generally ok. However, over time my Jimny had started to rock sideways during high speed corners and was getting worse. I don't know the full cause, but replacing the suspension fixed the problem. My hunch is the front shocks had worn out, despite having done around 26k miles only.

To improve damping you could just change the shocks. But unless it is a road only version, you may as well gain the benefits of a lift. Plus more suspension travel. Here is a point you'll want to research, not all of the lift kits offer much in the way of improved suspension travel. In fact some possibly don't offer any. It depends how the kit is configured and designed.

In my case, I wanted to go for the 3" kit from Jimny bits, but this requires a lot of upgrades. And I know my Mrs would object to getting in it. So I opted for the 2" kit.

Most lift kits have stiffer springs, so in some ways ride harder thsn stock. But the better dampers mean the ride is more controlled and over rough terrain or road humps the lifted vehicle is significantly improved. I would also say that again to the improved damping and stiffer spring rate, that the handling is unaffected. In fact I opted for adjustable dampers. If I stiffen them up the handling is far better than stock. And setting them soft I still feel it is a mild improvement.

Therefore I would conclude that a good 2" lift kit has no negatives apart from being taller to get in.

The 3" kit offers more travel than the 2" one. Which would make it superior on technical terrain. But it may not be quite so good on road. Although I wouldn't expect a massive difference.

Manxman wrote:

If you are planning on having a set of dedicated trial tyres, you may want to think about whether there is really a benefit in running expensive tyres like BFG MTs - the likelihood of wrecking a tyre is much higher, especially in quarry sites, so you may be better with a cheaper alternative and treat them as disposable.

Personally I have used more aggressive tyres for competition work where the rules allow - I'm currently running Malatesta Kaimans (essentially a copy of the old Simex pattern) on my Gen 3 - they're incredible in deep mud and also shrug off rock damage very well.

Just a thought...

That’s a good point, I have had a look at other makes, including Maxxis (they don’t seem to do any MT in the size I am looking at) and Insta Turbo, but I have always kept clear of remolds.  The other question is what I can find local to me, I don’t really want to buy tyres on the internet, then find a tyre fitter, I would rather get the tyres and fitting arranged together if i can.

I have had more brands of tyres on my Jimnys than any other car, the last set Maxxis Worm Drive have been the most expensive, but I have to say the best so far, so I don’t mind spending a bit more for a known quantity and something that performs.  I used to race a large sailing dinghy, we went through buying more cost effective sails until a good pal said, if you aren’t winning races you never know if it’s you or the gear and if you use the same as everyone else and still don’t win, at least you know it’s you.

As I mentioned before, I am open to all ideas, so thanks for your post and keep the ideas coming.

Robin

 

300bhpton wrote:

DrRobin wrote:

I am not feeling under any pressure to get a lift, I had been mulling it over before the suggestion on here, so I appreciated the comments and wanted to court opinion.  I realise that opinions on lifts are a Marmite question, but trusted opinions from people who have fitted a lift are very welcome, I will apply my usual filters.

A 2” lift could always be reversed, if I keep the stock parts which I would do.

Robin

I didn't rush to fit a lift either. But I would say the stock Jimny lacks ground clearance, not just under the diffs, but the breakover angle and approach angler are not great either.

Also the Jinmy, despite having live axles, doesn't flex all that great in stock trim. Not when you compare to a standard Land Rover. The traction control masks this to some extent, but lifting a wheel is easy and I'd suspect common on trials sections.

For this reason I'd say a suspension upgrade is worthwhile.

As a side note, I didn't feel that stock suspension was too bad on road. A little under damped and uncontrolled at times. But generally ok. However, over time my Jimny had started to rock sideways during high speed corners and was getting worse. I don't know the full cause, but replacing the suspension fixed the problem. My hunch is the front shocks had worn out, despite having done around 26k miles only.

To improve damping you could just change the shocks. But unless it is a road only version, you may as well gain the benefits of a lift. Plus more suspension travel. Here is a point you'll want to research, not all of the lift kits offer much in the way of improved suspension travel. In fact some possibly don't offer any. It depends how the kit is configured and designed.

In my case, I wanted to go for the 3" kit from Jimny bits, but this requires a lot of upgrades. And I know my Mrs would object to getting in it. So I opted for the 2" kit.

Most lift kits have stiffer springs, so in some ways ride harder thsn stock. But the better dampers mean the ride is more controlled and over rough terrain or road humps the lifted vehicle is significantly improved. I would also say that again to the improved damping and stiffer spring rate, that the handling is unaffected. In fact I opted for adjustable dampers. If I stiffen them up the handling is far better than stock. And setting them soft I still feel it is a mild improvement.

Therefore I would conclude that a good 2" lift kit has no negatives apart from being taller to get in.

The 3" kit offers more travel than the 2" one. Which would make it superior on technical terrain. But it may not be quite so good on road. Although I wouldn't expect a massive difference.

Thanks for your post, I did nearly post on your blog and ask you about your lift as I know you spent a long while looking.  I am going to reread your post carefully and possibly reread your blog.

A couple of quick questions, how long did it take you to fit and did it change your insurance?

Robin

Cheers.

TBH if I was only running one set of tyres (for road and competition) I would think about BFGs or similar, as they are a known quality item and last well on road.

A more aggressive tyre is a compromise, in terms of noise and wear rate, but will likely be cheaper and better performing off-road. Just check what the regs allow, some RTVs limit the type of tyre/tread pattern. I certainly wouldn't worry about using remoulds as comp tyres, I've used a few different brands in 20+ years of comp work without any issues. Finding a local supplier would help, certainly - have you tried Black Circles?

Good luck in any case

DrRobin wrote:

Manxman wrote:

If you are planning on having a set of dedicated trial tyres, you may want to think about whether there is really a benefit in running expensive tyres like BFG MTs - the likelihood of wrecking a tyre is much higher, especially in quarry sites, so you may be better with a cheaper alternative and treat them as disposable.

Personally I have used more aggressive tyres for competition work where the rules allow - I'm currently running Malatesta Kaimans (essentially a copy of the old Simex pattern) on my Gen 3 - they're incredible in deep mud and also shrug off rock damage very well.

Just a thought...

That’s a good point, I have had a look at other makes, including Maxxis (they don’t seem to do any MT in the size I am looking at) and Insta Turbo, but I have always kept clear of remolds.  The other question is what I can find local to me, I don’t really want to buy tyres on the internet, then find a tyre fitter, I would rather get the tyres and fitting arranged together if i can.

I have had more brands of tyres on my Jimnys than any other car, the last set Maxxis Worm Drive have been the most expensive, but I have to say the best so far, so I don’t mind spending a bit more for a known quantity and something that performs.  I used to race a large sailing dinghy, we went through buying more cost effective sails until a good pal said, if you aren’t winning races you never know if it’s you or the gear and if you use the same as everyone else and still don’t win, at least you know it’s you.

As I mentioned before, I am open to all ideas, so thanks for your post and keep the ideas coming.

Robin


 

Generally remoulds are the tyre of choice for trials events, as much more aggressive tread patterns are available. In muddy conditions they will easily beat names brand MTs like BFG KM3, General Grabber X3 or Toyo MTs.

The best tread pattern can vary for different terrains to some extent. Not sure what size you'd for your Jimny. In Japan they seem to run 6.50 x 16 which is a size you can get in mainland EU, but pretty much no chance in the UK. A 205/80R16 is quite close, which is what I'd like. but you'd probably want a lift and 16 rims.

As a rule I find tall narrow tyres work best in the UK off road and usually offer better turning for trials sections.

On my Land Rover I trial with a set of 7.00 x 16's, while for general use I run 33.10.50R15's.

Sadly remould tyres and decent aggressive ones are not easy to get in the UK currently, so choice is a bit limited.

Something like this would be a good trialling tyre:
tyresdirectuk.co.uk/products/215-75r15-1...-sahara-2?taxon_id=8

Also available in a size up:
tyresdirectuk.co.uk/products/235-75r15-105q-insa-turbo-sahara

DrRobin wrote:

A couple of quick questions, how long did it take you to fit and did it change your insurance?

Robin

Me & my brother fitted the kit. Think we started about 10-10:30am in the morning and finished about 5pm that day, with a lunchbreak. You could do it quicker, but we didn't rush and hadn't done a Jimny before, so had to figure some bits out.

This was 4 springs, 4 shocks, extended brake lines, including a new front subframe and the LED headlight adjsuter.

The next weekend we fitted the castor correction bushes. Which only took a couple of hours.

Insurance was no problem, no additional cost, just listed on the policy. I'm with LV.

Ok so it's time for me to be that guy again. If I understand it you're being motivated by a couple of things first being beaten by land rover products in competition and secondly by having dragged your diff guard.

First off trying to win in an open class at any level of motor sport is simply an expression of who has the deeper pockets. You turn up in a jimny having spent a few thousand pounds on it and win, yay! I turn up the following week, having seen your efforts, and I have spent 20 times as much on a very special ibex and you never podium again unless you match my investment. Motor sport is almost as good a way of becoming poor as being a farmer is.

Moving on. The diffs on a jimny are not as delicate as you think, certainly not like a land rover, so from a protective point of view guards are rather debatable. Not to say they don't have a place if viewed as a skid to stop objects snagging as they do that quite well. However they are not exactly close fitting and there is the material thickness they are made from too. So effectively by going for the bigger tyres you are looking at you are returning the diff height back to where you started but you are having to buy a lift kit and bigger tyres to do it, which is both expensive and puts additional strain on the rest of the car. Of course this also assumes that the tyres you buy are actually the size they say they are. My renegade at5 are 5 to 6mm smaller than my worn duelers and in turn they were 7mm smaller than the bfg urban I used to have but they are all 205.70.

Ultimately it's not my choice but you have asked for opinion.

To some extent I agree about money and motorsport. But I’d say less so for trialling. Very often well driven standard Land Rovers best modified ones. 

I don’t know the regs where DrRobin competes or the types of trials. But as a rule smaller vehicles often do better. But more challenging terrain favours Land Rovers. Due to standard tyre size and better suspension flex on a Land Rover. 

For instance. My brother and I setup and RTV a few years back where a number of Jimny’s and other Suzuki’s entered. I heard complaints that it had been setup with lockers and 35” tyres. I interjected and pointed at a completed standard pickup 90 and said we’d setup in that. 

Good job I got the diff and transfer case breathers done....
 

Taken last Sunday on the Reeth to Ripon tour.

Robin

Lambert wrote:

Ok so it's time for me to be that guy again. If I understand it you're being motivated by a couple of things first being beaten by land rover products in competition and secondly by having dragged your diff guard.

First off trying to win in an open class at any level of motor sport is simply an expression of who has the deeper pockets. You turn up in a jimny having spent a few thousand pounds on it and win, yay! I turn up the following week, having seen your efforts, and I have spent 20 times as much on a very special ibex and you never podium again unless you match my investment. Motor sport is almost as good a way of becoming poor as being a farmer is.


 

Not at all Lambert, in fact thanks for been 'that guy', your opinion is always welcome.  The thing is I realise I am not going to win or at least win very often and to be honest, most of the others at the local club have been doing it for quite a few years, even if you plonked me in one of their vehicles, I still wouldn't win.  My interest in a lift is just to get a bit further through the stages or complete a few more, I can put up with been mid-table or even last.

The rules at the club are fairly loose, but you have to drive there and the vehicle has to be road legal, plus there are no prizes, not even a trophy, just a good friendly day out.

I can't see myself spending multi-thousands trying to make my Gen 4 be ultra competitive, as you point out it would be self defeating and if I was going that route and sticking with a Jimny, I would be buying/building a special, that's definately not happening.

Robin