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Re:Deciding on a Diff for a Daily Driver
06 Jan 2022 21:11 #240945
by Jambls
04 mode, nearly unmodified.
Replied by Jambls on topic Deciding on a Diff for a Daily Driver
I would absolutely love an ARB locker, but the money won't work. I'm having second thoughts about the quaife, as well as I've just remembered I was going to put a new set of tyres on it. The other advantage of the quaife is I could pretend to the insurance that it's standard and they wouldn't be able to tell. For the moment, it looks like I try and get a standard diff.
Does anyone know where I could get the bearings and gaskets I'd need if I was tearing into my diff?
Does anyone know where I could get the bearings and gaskets I'd need if I was tearing into my diff?
04 mode, nearly unmodified.
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08 Jan 2022 11:55 - 08 Jan 2022 12:04 #240973
by LesNewell
Replied by LesNewell on topic Deciding on a Diff for a Daily Driver
I'm the one who fitted Chinese E-lockers. If you don't mind waiting a couple of weeks the cheapest way to get them is direct from Haifeng through Alibaba. I think there are a couple of manufacturers but Haifeng (HF) have a reasonable reputation.
The rear diff isn't a bad fit. There is a bracket that stops the electromagnet from rotating which isn't a very good fit. It can be made to fit with a bit of filing and bending. I made a new one because I have a fully equipped metal shop and, well that's the way I roll. It's a good idea to strip the diff and give it a thorough clean and remove any sharp edges. Internally the build quality doesn't look too bad. They do cut a few corners and some parts could be better but overall they aren't bad. In use the diff does need to rotate something like 20 - 30 degrees before it engages but in practice I can't say I have ever noticed it. Due to the way the solenoid mechanism works I wouldn't recommend driving long distances with the locker engaged. It's more of a case of engaging the locker to get yourself out of trouble then disengaging after.
I wouldn't recommend a front E-locker on an early diff. The locker needs a lot of modification to make it fit. It's really designed to fit the larger later diff casing. To be honest a front locker is a luxury. One locker is enough for the majority of cases.
If your diff is making a noise I'd strongly recommend replacing all of the bearings while you are at it. The side bearings are an odd imperial size and are pretty expensive. You'll also need a new pinion seal and crush tube. The costs do add up pretty quickly.
You will need a torque wrench, spring balance, dial gauge and good quality bearing puller. You don't absolutely have to have a press but it makes life a lot easier. The job isn't that difficult but it can be very time consuming and you need to be methodical. Follow the instructions in the Suzuki manual carefully. It's a case of make a small adjustment, check preloads and clearances, readjust and repeat.. and repeat... and repeat.
I've only had the diff fitted for a couple of months so I can't say much about long term life but from what I have seen of the internals I don't see any reason why they shouldn't last a decent time as long as you have a modicum of mechanical sympathy. If you're a complete lead foot go with an ARB for peace of mind. I have seen a lot of people online bashing these diffs but if you look for people who have actually owned them, most seem to be pretty happy with them.
If you decide a locker is too much money I'd say your best bet would be to get another used diff. The only new parts you need are two axle seals, some RTV sealant (ordinary household silicone works in a pinch), some brake fluid and of course diff oil. You may get away with re-using the seals but they aren't expensive.
The rear diff isn't a bad fit. There is a bracket that stops the electromagnet from rotating which isn't a very good fit. It can be made to fit with a bit of filing and bending. I made a new one because I have a fully equipped metal shop and, well that's the way I roll. It's a good idea to strip the diff and give it a thorough clean and remove any sharp edges. Internally the build quality doesn't look too bad. They do cut a few corners and some parts could be better but overall they aren't bad. In use the diff does need to rotate something like 20 - 30 degrees before it engages but in practice I can't say I have ever noticed it. Due to the way the solenoid mechanism works I wouldn't recommend driving long distances with the locker engaged. It's more of a case of engaging the locker to get yourself out of trouble then disengaging after.
I wouldn't recommend a front E-locker on an early diff. The locker needs a lot of modification to make it fit. It's really designed to fit the larger later diff casing. To be honest a front locker is a luxury. One locker is enough for the majority of cases.
If your diff is making a noise I'd strongly recommend replacing all of the bearings while you are at it. The side bearings are an odd imperial size and are pretty expensive. You'll also need a new pinion seal and crush tube. The costs do add up pretty quickly.
You will need a torque wrench, spring balance, dial gauge and good quality bearing puller. You don't absolutely have to have a press but it makes life a lot easier. The job isn't that difficult but it can be very time consuming and you need to be methodical. Follow the instructions in the Suzuki manual carefully. It's a case of make a small adjustment, check preloads and clearances, readjust and repeat.. and repeat... and repeat.
I've only had the diff fitted for a couple of months so I can't say much about long term life but from what I have seen of the internals I don't see any reason why they shouldn't last a decent time as long as you have a modicum of mechanical sympathy. If you're a complete lead foot go with an ARB for peace of mind. I have seen a lot of people online bashing these diffs but if you look for people who have actually owned them, most seem to be pretty happy with them.
If you decide a locker is too much money I'd say your best bet would be to get another used diff. The only new parts you need are two axle seals, some RTV sealant (ordinary household silicone works in a pinch), some brake fluid and of course diff oil. You may get away with re-using the seals but they aren't expensive.
Last edit: 08 Jan 2022 12:04 by LesNewell.
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- Roger Fairclough
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08 Jan 2022 12:58 #240975
by Roger Fairclough
Replied by Roger Fairclough on topic Deciding on a Diff for a Daily Driver
OK yes, I'm being opinionated again, but I just don't like crush tubes. On my LC I obtained from the states a proper "solid tube". It came with shims and was easy to set up. With a crush tube there is the possibility of flex and I believe a solid tube will eliminate this. I know a guy who had an ARB locker fitted to his LJ70 and flex caused the pinion teeth to dig into the ARB casing. This guy had no mechanical sympathy and his throttle was all or nothing.
Roger
Roger
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08 Jan 2022 13:12 #240976
by Busta
Replied by Busta on topic Deciding on a Diff for a Daily Driver
I have a Quaife LSD in mine (Daily driver, 1.6, farm and forestry work, towing 50% of the time). I'm very pleased with it. An LSD is the only option that improves the car on-road as well as off-road, and it's fit and forget. Most of the time you don't know it's there but accelerate hard around a tight corner or out of a junction and you notice the extra shove. I can get a pleasing American-cop-car-style tyre squeal driving around carparks. Off road it means both wheels are pushing most of the time, right up until one comes off the ground. I installed mine myself without a dial indicator.
An air locker is great in extreme situations but it's all or nothing, installation is more complicated and they are expensive. An automatic locker can be anywhere on a scale from terrible to fantastic depending on a myriad of ever changing variables. I'd avoid them in a daily driver.
If I'd seen the Chinese torsen E-lockers before I purchased the Quaife I would have been tempted to go for one of them. As I'm sure you know they are an LSD just like the Quaife with the added benefit of being fully locked at the touch of a button.
An air locker is great in extreme situations but it's all or nothing, installation is more complicated and they are expensive. An automatic locker can be anywhere on a scale from terrible to fantastic depending on a myriad of ever changing variables. I'd avoid them in a daily driver.
If I'd seen the Chinese torsen E-lockers before I purchased the Quaife I would have been tempted to go for one of them. As I'm sure you know they are an LSD just like the Quaife with the added benefit of being fully locked at the touch of a button.
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08 Jan 2022 18:30 #240978
by sniper
Replied by sniper on topic Deciding on a Diff for a Daily Driver
The Quaife ATB is quite a piece of kit if you are an "enthusiastic" driver. It instantly gives the the car a "lift-off oversteer" chassis trait and if combined with good suspension, makes these little cars sing on B roads....
Not that I am that sort of chap but.... EVERY other 4x4 including 400hp Rangerover Sports are easy pickings in the tight and twisty bits and whilst the car is generally well sorted, most of it, is down to the diff. Even braking is improved with force spread equally across the axle....
Off road, I am yet to fail whilst on the lanes with big tyre cars. I follow 32"+ tyre cars all over....
Quaife rear and ARB front is my eventual aim but the front locker is way down on my priority list, the car gets where it needs to go with just the Quaife in the rear.....
sniper
Not that I am that sort of chap but.... EVERY other 4x4 including 400hp Rangerover Sports are easy pickings in the tight and twisty bits and whilst the car is generally well sorted, most of it, is down to the diff. Even braking is improved with force spread equally across the axle....
Off road, I am yet to fail whilst on the lanes with big tyre cars. I follow 32"+ tyre cars all over....
Quaife rear and ARB front is my eventual aim but the front locker is way down on my priority list, the car gets where it needs to go with just the Quaife in the rear.....
sniper
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08 Jan 2022 21:29 #240983
by Busta
Replied by Busta on topic Deciding on a Diff for a Daily Driver
I have the Quaife combined with a welded front diff and it is quite a formidable setup.
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