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Suppliers/Dealers or anyone selling with a commercial view in mind CANNOT post here unless responding to a specific request of a member in a "wanted" post.
Suppliers include people "breaking for spares" on a regular basis, when purchasing spares members should ask a supplier what they contribute to the running of the forum particularly if contacted by a Private Message
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Would you swap?
17 Oct 2023 10:41 #251515
by 300bhpton
For instance. The mirrors are brilliant on a Defender. Large, well place and very easy to see. Easily as good or better than a Gen 4 Jimny and better than a Gen 3.
Seating wise. I know plenty of 6 footers or taller that have daily driven Defenders for years. Never noticed a lack of shoulder room. Your right elbow is close to the door, but very similar to a 4th Gen Jimny. But much more room on your left (assuming rhd).
I’d also say driving positions between a jb74 and a Defender are almost identical. Which is a reason I like both to drive.
The heater should also be fine. Even on older models. Puma’s have a different heater and is a little OTT if anything. Certainly as good as any other modern car. Can’t say I’ve had issue with the wipers either. And again almost identical to those on a jb74.
Jumping out of low range is also not normal. Sounds like there is an issue with yours. Steering should also not shake. Sounds like imbalanced tyres, worn drop arm joint, worn steering damper or knackered steering box. Certainly a maintenance related issue.
As for the throttle. That also sounds odd too. The Pumas are clunky to change gear. But off road they should be smooth. In low range it also has a different throttle map to high range. Did some really rough rocky lanes in the 12 plate 2.2 Puma earlier in the year and it was very impressive.
As for turning. A 110 has a much longer wheelbase than the Jimny. So it is just physics that it will more room to turn. But run some wider offset rims and tweak the steering stops and it should turn quite well. My brother 90 turns tighter than my JB74. And my 88 coiler Land Rover even tighter again.
Replied by 300bhpton on topic Would you swap?
I know a lot of these things are personal opinion. But are you sure it is a Defender you are driving? That description does not tally with what they are at all.On paper the turning circle is just over 30% bigger, but on the ground it feels like you need twice as much room. That's with standard wheels, standard steering stops, 235/85r16 tyres that rub a bit on full lock. The slow steering and big steering wheel make it feel very cumbersome. Permanent 4wd means you can't steer it on the throttle like you can a Jimny, or drive it any particularly entertaining manner.
Awkward to drive because I have shoulders and elbows than the original designers didn't account for. It's a hi cap pickup and the seat doesn't go back far enough for me without being in a bolt upright position (I'm 5'6!) The drive-by-wire accelerator pedal has a lag that oscillates perfectly with bumps causing kangarooing. The mirrors are crap. The wipers are crap. The heater is crap. It jumps out of low range. The steering shakes badly over bumps. The ride is rough. The doors aren't air tight. You can modify anything to make it go quickly, but as standard they are slow lumbering things.
But that's all irrelevant in this instance. If Lightning's partner likes them then that's all that matters!
For instance. The mirrors are brilliant on a Defender. Large, well place and very easy to see. Easily as good or better than a Gen 4 Jimny and better than a Gen 3.
Seating wise. I know plenty of 6 footers or taller that have daily driven Defenders for years. Never noticed a lack of shoulder room. Your right elbow is close to the door, but very similar to a 4th Gen Jimny. But much more room on your left (assuming rhd).
I’d also say driving positions between a jb74 and a Defender are almost identical. Which is a reason I like both to drive.
The heater should also be fine. Even on older models. Puma’s have a different heater and is a little OTT if anything. Certainly as good as any other modern car. Can’t say I’ve had issue with the wipers either. And again almost identical to those on a jb74.
Jumping out of low range is also not normal. Sounds like there is an issue with yours. Steering should also not shake. Sounds like imbalanced tyres, worn drop arm joint, worn steering damper or knackered steering box. Certainly a maintenance related issue.
As for the throttle. That also sounds odd too. The Pumas are clunky to change gear. But off road they should be smooth. In low range it also has a different throttle map to high range. Did some really rough rocky lanes in the 12 plate 2.2 Puma earlier in the year and it was very impressive.
As for turning. A 110 has a much longer wheelbase than the Jimny. So it is just physics that it will more room to turn. But run some wider offset rims and tweak the steering stops and it should turn quite well. My brother 90 turns tighter than my JB74. And my 88 coiler Land Rover even tighter again.
17 Oct 2023 10:42 - 17 Oct 2023 10:53 #251516
by DJ20
Replied by DJ20 on topic Would you swap?
Sold my 2020 Jimny awhile back now and bought a 2013 2.2 Defender 90.
Biggest problem with the Jimny for me was the lack of engine grunt.
I also feel the Defender is more shore footed than the Jimny.
Jimny is more refined to drive but needs a sixth gear if you do any motorway driving.
For all the Defender inherent faults I prefer it to the Jimny.
Biggest problem with the Jimny for me was the lack of engine grunt.
I also feel the Defender is more shore footed than the Jimny.
Jimny is more refined to drive but needs a sixth gear if you do any motorway driving.
For all the Defender inherent faults I prefer it to the Jimny.
Last edit: 17 Oct 2023 10:53 by DJ20.
18 Oct 2023 15:27 #251556
by 300bhpton
The TJ is well optioned too with a 2.5 or 2.4 petrol inline 4 or a lovely 4.0 Straight 6 with 170hp (easily tuneable to 190hp+). You can also get them with an automatic or 5 speed manual and with things like aircon and comfy seats. Obviously lacking in mod cons by 2023 standards, but easily still a nice place to be.
The 4.0 is pretty quick too, 8-8.5 sec 0-60mph. The TJ is like the Jimny 2wd on the road without a centre diff.
The TJ is capable out of the box, but less ground clearance than a Defender off road. But very easy to mod. They also hold their money quite well, but are available a lot cheaper than a Defender. But probably similar'ish money for a given year. Available 1997-2006. No diesel options on the TJ.
Really the only thing against the TJ is that the XJ Cherokee uses largely the same drivetrain and is just as capable, but a little larger and plusher. The XJ does have a leaf rear end, but it rides so well you'd never know. The 4.0 litre usually had an optional centre diff to allow you to run in AWD on the road all the time. The Cherokee also used to be a lot cheaper, although prices have sky rocketed on them in the last few years. I really should never have sold my XJ!
Next is the JK Wrangler from approx 2007 through to 2018. The JK is an all new vehicle from the TJ. A little bigger 95.6" wheelbase, but it is also wider and longer. But overall it is still a pretty small 4x4. For the UK we only got the 2.8 litre VM diesel. Pre 2011 is 6 speed manual or 4 speed auto. Post 2011 is 5 speed auto only and 200hp, earlier ones are more like 180hp.
The JK is a much more modern vehicle and more akin to a Discovery 3 in terms of comfort and refinement and would be very easy to daily drive one. A hugely capable vehicle off road. There was a more off road focused variant with locking diffs, lower gearing and electronically detachable anti roll bars, known as the Rubicon. Very few of these made it to the UK, some early 3.8 litre V6 models did, although this engine is a bit of a pig. And the spec that was offered was awful. I think a few Pentastar 3.6 V6 models made their way over towards the end of the run, but mostly quite rare. As an off the shelf package a JK Wrangler should be better on and off road vs a Jimny. Just slightly larger. Also easy to tune for more power and more off road ability.
Latest Wrangler is the JL, which looks very similar to the JK and is the same size. Not sure how much is new, suspect more evolution of the JK. New engine line up and better interiors. 2.0 petrol turbo or 2.2 diesel turbo, but only autos offered in the UK
Again extremely capable vehicles all round and would be nicer than a Defender to daily IMO. I think you could get a centre diff too, but not in every model or variant.
Replied by 300bhpton on topic Would you swap?
I personally really like the Wrangler. There have been 4 generations, the original YJ with square headlights is cool, but has leaf springs. The TJ has round headlights, but looks similar. These are almost identical in size to a Defender, 93.1" wheelbase vs 92.9" for the Defender 90.What about a wrangler? Between that the Ariel Nomad and the Isuzu AT35 are the only things that might countenance not having a Jimny for.
The TJ is well optioned too with a 2.5 or 2.4 petrol inline 4 or a lovely 4.0 Straight 6 with 170hp (easily tuneable to 190hp+). You can also get them with an automatic or 5 speed manual and with things like aircon and comfy seats. Obviously lacking in mod cons by 2023 standards, but easily still a nice place to be.
The 4.0 is pretty quick too, 8-8.5 sec 0-60mph. The TJ is like the Jimny 2wd on the road without a centre diff.
The TJ is capable out of the box, but less ground clearance than a Defender off road. But very easy to mod. They also hold their money quite well, but are available a lot cheaper than a Defender. But probably similar'ish money for a given year. Available 1997-2006. No diesel options on the TJ.
Really the only thing against the TJ is that the XJ Cherokee uses largely the same drivetrain and is just as capable, but a little larger and plusher. The XJ does have a leaf rear end, but it rides so well you'd never know. The 4.0 litre usually had an optional centre diff to allow you to run in AWD on the road all the time. The Cherokee also used to be a lot cheaper, although prices have sky rocketed on them in the last few years. I really should never have sold my XJ!
Next is the JK Wrangler from approx 2007 through to 2018. The JK is an all new vehicle from the TJ. A little bigger 95.6" wheelbase, but it is also wider and longer. But overall it is still a pretty small 4x4. For the UK we only got the 2.8 litre VM diesel. Pre 2011 is 6 speed manual or 4 speed auto. Post 2011 is 5 speed auto only and 200hp, earlier ones are more like 180hp.
The JK is a much more modern vehicle and more akin to a Discovery 3 in terms of comfort and refinement and would be very easy to daily drive one. A hugely capable vehicle off road. There was a more off road focused variant with locking diffs, lower gearing and electronically detachable anti roll bars, known as the Rubicon. Very few of these made it to the UK, some early 3.8 litre V6 models did, although this engine is a bit of a pig. And the spec that was offered was awful. I think a few Pentastar 3.6 V6 models made their way over towards the end of the run, but mostly quite rare. As an off the shelf package a JK Wrangler should be better on and off road vs a Jimny. Just slightly larger. Also easy to tune for more power and more off road ability.
Latest Wrangler is the JL, which looks very similar to the JK and is the same size. Not sure how much is new, suspect more evolution of the JK. New engine line up and better interiors. 2.0 petrol turbo or 2.2 diesel turbo, but only autos offered in the UK
Again extremely capable vehicles all round and would be nicer than a Defender to daily IMO. I think you could get a centre diff too, but not in every model or variant.
18 Oct 2023 15:58 #251560
by 300bhpton
We do a lot of RTV style Land Rover trials, so turning circle is critical. The Jimny has advantages that has an overall smaller foot print and vs a 90 has a short wheelbase and is narrower. Which allows you a little more freedom and in a way more room to drive, often allowing for a slightly different line. But in terms of pure turning circle there really isn't a lot in it.
I will have to do a dedicated video some time, but don't have anything specifically at the moment.
Replied by 300bhpton on topic Would you swap?
To test turning circle we normally use some garden canes. i.e. put one cane in the ground next to the front hub and one next to the rear, so that you can align the vehicle the same each time. Then full lock and let it drive on idle until you have done 180 degree turn. Then mark the outer most position of the vehicle at the front. Then repeat with the next vehicle using the same starting point as marked up with the first 2 canes.300, clearly we aren't going to agree here but I've driven and worked on enough Defenders to be confident with my opinions on them. You are a Defender enthusiast. I'm not. That's all there is to it.
I would love to see a practical demonstration of the turning circles though!
We do a lot of RTV style Land Rover trials, so turning circle is critical. The Jimny has advantages that has an overall smaller foot print and vs a 90 has a short wheelbase and is narrower. Which allows you a little more freedom and in a way more room to drive, often allowing for a slightly different line. But in terms of pure turning circle there really isn't a lot in it.
I will have to do a dedicated video some time, but don't have anything specifically at the moment.
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