Thoughts on the new Ineos Grenadier?

I like the look but that's it..

I cannot believe in the 2020 they've chosen an internal combustion engine (on top of that one of BMWs!) instead of an electric one!
They are aiming for an easy repair? With the latest technology? With an auto gearbox? With tonnes of sensors and gadgets?

It should have galvanised chassiss, aluminium body with simple riveted panels for start. And a sealed electric motor without any clutch or gearbox. No more oil, oil seal, coolant, exhaust pipe, etc etc. would be nice. There is a chance it will follow the path of gen4 Jimny.. Keep it simple and reliable.

Busta wrote: I think they have the right idea and it potentially could do very well as long as they keep it practical. They shouldn't have any problems trumping the old Defender for comfort, build quality and reliability.
But the price will be too steep for many business users. Working spec Defenders were competitively priced. We paid £18k+vat for a new Defender in 2015.

Trouble is. There isn’t anything on the market for that kind of money these days. A quad cab 4wd Ranger or Hilux will start at around £27k for a base model. Go up a spec or two and they are all £32-36k before options these days.

I like it, they will be offering different body version's. A short wheel base would be good. I believe Ineos wanted to make the old Defender under license but LR refused to accommodate them so they made their own version.

300bhpton wrote:

Busta wrote: I think they have the right idea and it potentially could do very well as long as they keep it practical. They shouldn't have any problems trumping the old Defender for comfort, build quality and reliability.
But the price will be too steep for many business users. Working spec Defenders were competitively priced. We paid £18k+vat for a new Defender in 2015.

Trouble is. There isn’t anything on the market for that kind of money these days. A quad cab 4wd Ranger or Hilux will start at around £27k for a base model. Go up a spec or two and they are all £32-36k before options these days.

A quick look at new cars on Autotrader brings up 4wd doublecab D-Max and Navarras for £19k, Rangers for £21k, Hiluxs for £25k.

HUN wrote: I like the look but that's it..

I cannot believe in the 2020 they've chosen an internal combustion engine (on top of that one of BMWs!) instead of an electric one!
They are aiming for an easy repair? With the latest technology? With an auto gearbox? With tonnes of sensors and gadgets?

It should have galvanised chassiss, aluminium body with simple riveted panels for start. And a sealed electric motor without any clutch or gearbox. No more oil, oil seal, coolant, exhaust pipe, etc etc. would be nice. There is a chance it will follow the path of gen4 Jimny.. Keep it simple and reliable.

But what kind of range will you get towing a mini digger or a load of cattle? Electric vehicles are still, in the main part, a lifestyle choice. They don't cut it in industry. Work vehicles need to keep working all day long.

This ^^^^. An ev Jimny would make much sense for me as I don't generally go that far day to day so a 200 mile range would be fine. However an ev tow car that might manage 300 miles solo but with a 3500kg trailer on the back might only manage 75 to 100 miles an attracts a high purchase price because of its gree credentials is a complete non starter for me. Only being able to do one or one and a half trips before a full recharge just wouldn't cut it. The future is definitely ev but we're not there yet, not even close.

To my mind there is perhaps a bit of a clue in the phrase everyone is saying "There is nothing else like it on the market".

There can be two reasons for this, one is that it is genuinely new, innovative and first to market. The other is that other people have tried and not found the market is there or the market has moved on. I have a feeling is that it might be the latter. Santana and LandRover have either gone or moved on.

I think they need to crack the military market. The British Army's fleet of Landrover Wolfs are aging rapidly. The Army now has thicker skinned vehicles at one end (following combat experience) and twin cabs (Rangers etc.) at the other. I think there is still a vacancy in the middle for a lightweight military 4x4 which would be enough of a market to help sustain Ineos. This, combined with some leisure, commercial, agricultural sales would be enough to warrant production.

mlines wrote: To my mind there is perhaps a bit of a clue in the phrase everyone is saying "There is nothing else like it on the market".
There can be two reasons for this, one is that it is genuinely new, innovative and first to market. The other is that other people have tried and not found the market is there or the market has moved on. I have a feeling is that it might be the latter. Santana and LandRover have either gone or moved on.
I think they need to crack the military market. The British Army's fleet of Landrover Wolfs are aging rapidly. The Army now has thicker skinned vehicles at one end (following combat experience) and twin cabs (Rangers etc.) at the other. I think there is still a vacancy in the middle for a lightweight military 4x4 which would be enough of a market to help sustain Ineos. This, combined with some leisure, commercial, agricultural sales would be enough to warrant production.

I think you right Martin with the military angle, they have specifically made this to be rugged and easy to repair in the field, the new LR Defender will never see service in the military no matter how good it is, it is far too technical for a field repair and it has static platform which cannot adapt easily for different roles. There will always be a requirement for a fast agile air transportable vehicle that can support various roles/weapon systems like the wolf.

I like it. It reminds me of a cross between the Defender (obviously) and some sort of UAZ/Russian military vehicle.

I think it will be expensive. As far as I can tell it's nearest competitor is the 79 Series Land Cruiser, and that is a pretty uniquely utilitarian/rugged vehicle, that sells for over £40,000 in it's most basic spec. The Mercedes G professional I think is over £65,000 and is similarly basic. Both of those vehicles rely on heavy, hardcore industry (Australian mines etc) that I just don't think there is a demand for in Europe.

But who knows I guess!

I think they've missed the boat from a military point of view,. Once the Defender or series 2 ctd ceased production , other vehicles came into view .

The Army's needs are very simple much like the vehicle they require....I wouldn't like to try and bodge a BMW engine in a woods up to my knees in mud in the rain , while someone bashes the wings straight in the dark....
In the main NATO Need everyone to use the same equipment ...( obviously the French are excluded because they only use French stuff) .
It takes years to evaluate a vehicle for a role , so other marques will be way ahead .in a quickly changing environment.
The Rovers we used in the'91 gulf conflict were obsolete just a few years later, so by the time revisions were made , The Wolf ..we ended up with an overweight obsolete Rover that needed more added to it....hence the new designs vehicles that are common to all forces..
But there must a market for an old style LR in developing countries , however it needs to be easy to fix.....back to the beginnings .

Interested to read your 79 series Land Cruiser comment - I was looking at the Toyota range on the Toyota Gibraltar website the other day, which includes these (as well as two times 90 litre litre fuel tank on one. I wondered whether it is possible to import these into the UK for personal use (I have a 2008 LHD G Wagon which I brought in, but that does have a CoC)? I thought they - maybe the emissions or some other features - would mean that I would not be able to register one of them if I bought it . I wondered whether you or any other poster knew anything about this?

Many tx, Mike

PS - I am on the Grenadier list, I'd prefer a big Toyota engine to a BMW of course!

I'm afraid I don't know anything about that