×
BigJimnyMeet (North) 2024 (12 Jan 2024)


BigJimnyMeet 2024

14th July 2024
Parkwood Nr. Leeds

Booking now closed at 148 vehicles!!!



Looking forward to seeing everyone there

× A place for general chat about the Jimny. Please make sure you post in the correct section on the site, this way it keeps the site tidy AND ensures you get a more relevant answer.

Suppliers/Dealers or anyone selling with a commercial view in mind CANNOT post here unless responding to a specific request of a member in a "wanted" post.

Suppliers include people "breaking for spares" on a regular basis, when purchasing spares members should ask a supplier what they contribute to the running of the forum particularly if contacted by a Private Message

Suppliers or Members who have contributed to the forum can be identifed by the
logo.

Aftermarket OBD tools

More
19 Jun 2024 12:24 - 19 Jun 2024 12:28 #256344 by lightning
l've got one of these for the Defender and it's really useful, you can obviously read and clear error codes but also access settings and for instance turn off the "auto fold" mirrors.

l know there are code readers you can buy for most vehicles but is there a tool available for the Jimny that allows you to change the settings? The one for my Defender cost £450 but it was worth it.

On the Jimny l think the steering angle sensor may need resetting after l adjusted the tie bar to centralise the steering wheel.

The dealer wants over £100 just to look at it.
Last edit: 19 Jun 2024 12:28 by lightning.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
19 Jun 2024 12:57 #256345 by DrRobin
Replied by DrRobin on topic Aftermarket OBD tools
I have an Autel ML629 which will read the Jimny ECU, display figures/graphs and clear faults, but I don't think it allows you to edit/change the settings.

Then there is SZViewer, I have used this on my Gen4, but again I don't know if it allows edits/changes to be made.

You probably need one of the scanners that links to a phone and is then dedicated to the vehicle to be able to make changes, then there is probably only a limited set of changes you can make without the dedicated Suzuki service tool.

Carly is the one I know, but just checked and their website says it only supports basic functions for Suzuki cars.

2020 blue SZ5 (one of the last to be registered in the UK)
Ex 2011 Blue Jimny SZ4
Northumberland Jimny Blog

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
20 Jun 2024 07:09 #256353 by Motacilla
Replied by Motacilla on topic Aftermarket OBD tools
There is a current thread on this very topic happening on the German forum .  Fire up your Google Translate and have a look.

Short answer: yes, there are aftermarket scan tools that will work with the Gen4, it seems.  However not a lot of experience with them yet in the Jimny community, so you'll want to review the product descriptions carefully before buying to ensure you will have the capabilities you need.

With other cars in the past, I used an Autel system.  It was circa 500GBP as I recall.  It was very useful, if not quite to the same level as the pirate copy of the factory tool that I swear m'lud I did not have in my garage.  But I haven't done a thing with the Jimny yet, and anyway newer systems are probably even more capable.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
21 Jun 2024 12:08 - 21 Jun 2024 12:08 #256377 by lightning
Replied by lightning on topic Aftermarket OBD tools
Thank you for the advice, l will take a look. However the steering self-centre seems to have adjusted itself and is no longer pulling to the right slightly!

l wonder if that is possible? Maybe the computer had compared the position of the steering wheel with the difference in rear wheel rotation speed
And thought to itself, hey, the steering is self centred slightly off, let's adjust it slightly.

With modern technology it's possible.
Last edit: 21 Jun 2024 12:08 by lightning.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
21 Jun 2024 12:51 #256378 by Motacilla
Replied by Motacilla on topic Aftermarket OBD tools
The power steering assist is activated by a torque sensor in the steering column. The amount of assist is proportional to the torque applied, in conjunction with vehicle speed. With no torque applied to the steering wheel, and at normal road speeds, I don't think a nonzero amount of steering assist would be expected.

A quality scan tool would certainly help see what was going on at the sensor level to diagnose the problem.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
21 Jun 2024 14:04 #256380 by mlines
Replied by mlines on topic Aftermarket OBD tools

Thank you for the advice, l will take a look. However the steering self-centre seems to have adjusted itself and is no longer pulling to the right slightly!

l wonder if that is possible? Maybe the computer had compared the position of the steering wheel with the difference in rear wheel rotation speed
And thought to itself, hey, the steering is self centred slightly off, let's adjust it slightly.

With modern technology it's possible.
According to the manual, the steering "self centres" on the basis of simple averages. On average you are going to be steering in a straight line, even if you are constantly Steering left and right, the overall average of your steering will be the centrepoint (unless you are driving the Indi-500). Therefore the sensor can determine where the centre point is after a period of driving.

Martin

2003 M13 early KAP build.
3" Trailmaster lift with 1.5 Spacers on front
Customised winch bumper and roll cage
235/85R16 Maxxis Bighorns on 16" Rims, 4:1 Rocklobster, Rear ARB locker and on-board air
Corrected arms all-round, rear disks, Recaro seats and harnesses

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Lambert
  • Lambert's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Moderator
  • Moderator
    Registered
  • The quickest Jimny in Harrogate...(that I own)
More
21 Jun 2024 15:52 #256382 by Lambert
Replied by Lambert on topic Aftermarket OBD tools
It's a pity that kind of machine learning is too expensive to run the tpms system.

Temeraire (2018 quasar grey automatic)
One of the last 200ish of the gen3s, probably.
ADOS Attention Deficit Ooooh Shiny!

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
22 Jun 2024 09:44 #256390 by facade
Replied by facade on topic Aftermarket OBD tools
I had a play with SZviewer this morning.

It doesn't read the steering angle on the PS screen, only the torque sensor output and the motor currents.

It does display the steering angle offset on the ABS/ESP screen,  (mine is -2.5 degrees) but you can't zero it.


And I had 4 DTCs set, one for each tyre low pressure from December (rather sneaky remembering a low pressure, no doubt so someone can deny an insurance or warranty claim), so I cleared them ;)

 

If it suddenly breaks, go back to the last thing that you did before it broke and start looking there :)

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
23 Jun 2024 02:33 - 23 Jun 2024 02:34 #256407 by Chops
Replied by Chops on topic Aftermarket OBD tools

Thank you for the advice, l will take a look. However the steering self-centre seems to have adjusted itself and is no longer pulling to the right slightly!

l wonder if that is possible? Maybe the computer had compared the position of the steering wheel with the difference in rear wheel rotation speed
And thought to itself, hey, the steering is self centred slightly off, let's adjust it slightly.

With modern technology it's possible.
 
According to the manual, the steering "self centres" on the basis of simple averages. On average you are going to be steering in a straight line, even if you are constantly Steering left and right, the overall average of your steering will be the centrepoint (unless you are driving the Indi-500). Therefore the sensor can determine where the centre point is after a period of driving.
 

Slightly addition to this: it learns by looking at values of the steering angle sensor when the rear wheels are turning at a similar rate, rather than just an overall average for most of the time. If it sees reasonable difference in the front wheel speeds side to side it also doesn't use those times even if the rear wheels are turning at the same rate to stop it learning in certain circumstances.

That's why the manual has the warning about not rotating the rear wheels with the front wheels not turning at all and the steering turned off centre, as it can learn a new wrong centre.

That's also my working hypothesis about the wheel alignment shops screwing it up. Picture this as a scenario.
1. Underpaid worker is brought to rapidly put the Jimny on the rack to do an alignment
2. Worker drives onto the rack, since it won't take long and it'll be a road test they leave the car running (or they switch it off, but then have the ignition in ON position so the steering lock doesn't acrtivate)
3. Worker bee goes "oh cool, rear wheels have no adjustment, there's my datum".
4. Worker grabs the wheel triangle mounts to set the datum for their fancy 100k spared-no-expense laser alignment and levelling system
5. Worker is a good worker and understands that wheels can be bent, so they have the rear wheels slightly off the ground (or on rollers - have used them before to make it faster!) and spins the wheel they're using to set the datum.
6. Open diff spins the opposite wheel in an opposite direction, like open diffs want to do, Open diffs also are really good at sprinning the opposite wheel not just backwards but backwards *at the same speed* as the wheel you're rotating
7. The car's wheel speed sensors do not differentiate forwards and backwards movements. Just counts of tick, tick, tick... so if you spin a wheel backwards at the same speed that another one is spinning forwards, the car thinks both wheels are
8. Since the steering wheel is off centre because they haven't yet adjusted the drag link, the car learns this new position off to one side as the central position as the centre it is seeking.
9. Alignment is completed, steering wheel dutifully centred and toe set (even though it was probably ok beforehand, especially after a lift is installed). Now the steering wheel thinks it's turned a bit to the opposite side.
10. Customer picks up car, complains that the car power steering now forces the steering over to the angle it was before someone played with the alignment.

Almost all steering angle systems do self learning like this because sensors do drift over time and this saves customers needing them to be recalibrated every x km or whatever.
Last edit: 23 Jun 2024 02:34 by Chops. Reason: Added quote cause I'm useless at bulletin board software these days

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
23 Jun 2024 13:43 #256408 by Motacilla
Replied by Motacilla on topic Aftermarket OBD tools
Chops, that is good info, and I see your logic about how a pro alignment can go wrong.

But are we sure that the car is using the PS to force the wheel back to (what it thinks is) centre? I have never seen that kind of behaviour in any other car I have worked on.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
23 Jun 2024 13:47 #256409 by Motacilla
Replied by Motacilla on topic Aftermarket OBD tools
Facade, excellent info on SZ Viewer capability, thanks!

Shame it doesn't allow one to zero the steering angle sensor, but at least with a readout it will help with diagnosis. And one could always use the readout to manually centre the sensor -- bit of a faff but better than nothing.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
23 Jun 2024 16:41 - 23 Jun 2024 16:42 #256412 by Chops
Replied by Chops on topic Aftermarket OBD tools

Chops, that is good info, and I see your logic about how a pro alignment can go wrong.

But are we sure that the car is using the PS to force the wheel back to (what it thinks is) centre? I have never seen that kind of behaviour in any other car I have worked on.

 
Yeah, I'm confident for a couple of reasons. First off the Jimny does do some 'slow speed' self centering:

P/S control module determines basic assist power based on steering assist control and improves feeling of the steering by using steering return control and steering converging control. Further, the P/S control module controls motor current to harmonize target current with actual current in accordance with computing result of each control and maximum current limit control.

In any case, the other reason why I'm confident: if you yank the power steering fuse on a car which is exhibiting this behaviour then it totally stops doing it. Plus the angle the steering wheel gets to when it is trying to correct itself is the angle it was kinda 'at' before someone screwed with things.

It's still always hard with what are black box modules to know exactly what the decision making is; if I had more time on my hands then sure I'd love to make up a test rig to emulate the behaviour. The other thing that'd be good is actually have a good log of what has happened to the car including every step the people playing with the suspension took. People get themselves lost with these things.

Pretty much I've only seen it happen with pro alignment shops, too. People doing lifts at home and adjusting the drag link without actually doing stuff on an alignment rack (save for one example which appears to have been just getting stuff a bit unhappy and it eventually came good - presumably learning saved it there) always seem fine. It's always a pro alignment place and it isn't consistent, so clearly there's a way to do it and not screw it up with an actual alignment, too.
Last edit: 23 Jun 2024 16:42 by Chops.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Motacilla

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Time to create page: 0.171 seconds
Powered by Kunena Forum

I hope you enjoy using this forum. Please consider making a donation towards the upkeep of this forum website.

We use cookies to give you the best online experience. Please let us know if you agree to all of these cookies. Accepting the Cookies also accepts the Disclaimers for the website.