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Lift and anti roll bar

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02 Jun 2020 19:47 #223169 by Mole
Lift and anti roll bar was created by Mole
I was just and pondering when a vehicle is lifted should the anti roll bar be dropped the same amount as the lift ?

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02 Jun 2020 20:17 #223170 by jackonlyjack
Replied by jackonlyjack on topic Lift and anti roll bar
I would say at least half of the amount
Just remove it drive steady till you get used to the new feel ;)

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02 Jun 2020 21:00 #223173 by Busta
Replied by Busta on topic Lift and anti roll bar
No. The anti roll bar works somewhat independently of ride height. However for best off-road performance it's best to remove it altogether.

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02 Jun 2020 21:30 #223176 by X8GGY
Replied by X8GGY on topic Lift and anti roll bar
I reluctantly have to disagree, and kind of agree...

Adding lift raises the body (and chassis) away from the axle, this causes the anti-roll-bar drop links to angle out at the top, as the anti-roll-bar effectively shortens with the lift (that old guy Pythagoras proved this bit... the hypotenuse thingy-majig), adding spacers to the U shaped mount at the top where it bolts to the chassis straightens out these drop links... been there, done that...

Yes, I agree somewhat that the best mod for an offroad Jimny to improve articulation is indeed to remove the anti-roll-bar and "throw it as next doors dog" (as the old saying goes), after all, it is just a long length of sprung steel that is there to curb lean/sawy. body-roll on the road... and offroad therefore curbs articulation, BUT the best solution is to fit an anti-roll-bar disconnect system, predictable safer cornering, predictable body roll if you have to do an emergency swerve on the motorway, yet, remove the bolts from the anti-roll-bar disconnect system when you are at the play-site or greenlaning area, and you have ultimate articulation as well. and don't forget to bolt it back up again for the safe journey home... ;)

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02 Jun 2020 21:45 #223178 by X8GGY
Replied by X8GGY on topic Lift and anti roll bar
My Jimny with ~5" lift...



Drop link angle



Drop link angle with 20mm spacers on the top -



These ^^^

I then upgraded to 40mm spacers -



And this was the result with the angle of the drop links -



Hope that helps...?

Dave

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02 Jun 2020 23:03 #223182 by Busta
Replied by Busta on topic Lift and anti roll bar
It's very hard to gauge the actual change from your pictures, as the camera angle is quite different (look at how the arb actually appears to be at a steeper angle *after* you've added the 20mm spacers!), but it's clearly a very small adjustment

The important question is how the small change in droplink angle affects how it feels from the driver's seat, and the simple answer is it doesn't.

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03 Jun 2020 04:33 - 03 Jun 2020 05:02 #223186 by Lambert
Replied by Lambert on topic Lift and anti roll bar
The issue here is one of being in a situation where with enough deflection of the suspension it becomes increasingly possible to have the anti roll bar links go over centre if they are not operating in a position similar to the standard orientation. There's 2 ways to combat this. First is like in the pictures above when you lower the whole bar back into something like it's original position relative to the axle. This just needs simple blocks but does mean an increase for potentially hitting the front of the bar in extreme conditions. The other alternative is to use different link arms and maintain the bars position relative to the chassis and therefore the angle between the end of the, the link and the chassis. This is less easy as it involves researching suitable links from other vehicles with the correct fitting and a suitable length but it keeps everything else in it's original place. Ultimately which ever method is used the aim is to keep the standard geometry as much as possible which means that the links should be something like vertical between the bar and axle on flat level ground.

Oh and before anyone complains the length of the links has no effect on the operation of the bar as long as they are equal. What changes the way the bar works is either lengthening or shortening the distance between the mounting point on the end of the bar and the point at which it pivots at the chassis. That or increasing the effective cross section of the bar itself. For example welding a disconnect to it.

Temeraire (2018 quasar grey automatic)
One of the last 200ish of the gen3s, probably.
Last edit: 03 Jun 2020 05:02 by Lambert. Reason: Spelling

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03 Jun 2020 08:40 #223196 by Busta
Replied by Busta on topic Lift and anti roll bar
Has anyone had a droplink invert? I've never seen it.

It all comes down to what problem you're trying to fix, but to summarise:
If it's the increase in body roll from fitting a lift, this has nothing to do with the height of the arb so you don't need to change anything.
If it's concern about the droplinks inverting, check for yourself on full flex but I'm pretty sure this isn't possible, even with a 4+ inch lift, so you don't need to change anything.
If it's a concern about the angle of the arb or the droplinks, or both relative to each other, these represent very small changes in leverage ratio and will not have a noticeable affect its operation, so you don't need to change anything.

Anything I've missed?

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03 Jun 2020 08:54 #223198 by sniper
Replied by sniper on topic Lift and anti roll bar
The angle of fitment is very important to effective anti roll bar operation, it's a spring designed to work on a set angle, change that angle and the forces in to / out of the spring, change.

It will still work and in the majority, little or no change will be felt. But if it was a car that was driven hard on tarmac, you would see a difference in performance. It is one of many suspension geometry points that rally teams work on when setting up a car, changing length from tarmac (short) to forest (long). If it didn't matter, I'm sure they would use service time on other things...

sniper

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03 Jun 2020 09:18 #223202 by Lambert
Replied by Lambert on topic Lift and anti roll bar
Not on a Jimny but my old 90 was a pig for it on the back to the point that I had enough and removed it.

Temeraire (2018 quasar grey automatic)
One of the last 200ish of the gen3s, probably.

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03 Jun 2020 09:34 #223205 by Mole
Replied by Mole on topic Lift and anti roll bar
Thanks for the replys my jimny is lifted by 2inches and the roll bar is dropped probably ½inch just to acomadate the ARB disconnect and its somthing iv been thinking of for a while if I should have dropped it more but from the replys i should be fine so thanks

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03 Jun 2020 12:11 - 03 Jun 2020 12:22 #223216 by Busta
Replied by Busta on topic Lift and anti roll bar

The angle of fitment is very important to effective anti roll bar operation, it's a spring designed to work on a set angle, change that angle and the forces in to / out of the spring, change.

It will still work and in the majority, little or no change will be felt. But if it was a car that was driven hard on tarmac, you would see a difference in performance. It is one of many suspension geometry points that rally teams work on when setting up a car, changing length from tarmac (short) to forest (long). If it didn't matter, I'm sure they would use service time on other things...

sniper


You're talking about adjustable anti roll bars which certainly are a thing in motorsport, A series of holes in the ends of the anti roll bar allow the drop link position to be altered, effectively altering the length of the spring (the spring being the arb itself), and therefore the strength of the anti roll effect.



Notice how drastically the drop link angle changes when the strength of the anti roll bar is adjusted, yet there is no counter-adjustment made to maintain a specific drop link angle, as this is not significant.

The Jimny does not have an adjustable anti roll bar. It's a fixed length spring. Adjusting the length of the drop links or changing the position of the anti roll bar is not the same thing as adjusting the stiffness of the roll bar itself. As long as both ends are parallel with each other when the vehicle is on level ground, and it is operating in a range where the droplinks will not invert, the angle of the roll bar itself does not matter.


Not on a Jimny but my old 90 was a pig for it on the back to the point that I had enough and removed it.


The rear anti roll bars on late model Defenders were a terrible afterthought and should all be removed and destroyed.
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