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BigJimny Meet 2019 (17 May 2019)

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Re:Re:ABS Error - Stop Lamp Circuit (C1016/DTC 16)

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11 Oct 2019 14:01 #214612 by sss360
Hi All,

I've recently found that the ABS on my Jimny is not working and I assume a previous owner has disguised this by putting some tape over the light under the speedo so the ABS indicator wasn't displaying. Now I can see the ABS light I interpreted the error and it's throwing the DTC 16 "Stop Lamp Circuit". Frustrating somebody bodged it rather than fixed properly, but here we are...

The brake light wiring has also been replaced at some stage and this (single) wire now runs from the switch under the pedal down the offside body rather than with the original wiring on the nearside. I think chances are that when the brake light wiring was replaced it wasn't correctly patched into the ABS circuit so, consequently, the ABS control module doesn't detect any voltage from the stop lamp circuit and the ABS is disabled.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how I could remedy this? I am not an auto electrician by any means but I am hoping it's a simple fix by completing the circuit.

Cheers,

James

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11 Oct 2019 14:04 #214613 by mlines
Have they fitted LED bulbs or an led light unit?

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Martin

2003 M13 early KAP build.
3" Trailmaster lift with 1.5 Spacers on front
Customised winch bumper and roll cage
235/85R16 Maxxis Bighorns on 16" Rims, 4:1 Rocklobster, Rear ARB locker and on-board air
Corrected arms all-round, rear disks, Recaro seats and harnesses

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11 Oct 2019 14:14 - 11 Oct 2019 14:17 #214614 by sss360
Thanks for the quick reply, Martin.

No, good question though as I read the other thread where you diagnosed the error to be this. The pic attached shows the standard bulb and also the crudly "scotch locked" brake wire to the light.
Attachments:
Last edit: 11 Oct 2019 14:17 by sss360.

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11 Oct 2019 14:22 - 11 Oct 2019 14:30 #214616 by sss360
Also, attached is a pic of the wiring diagram from the manual and I've drawn where the new brake wire now runs to/from :)

Could the E142-12 have been bypassed by the new brake wire? Looking at it again I think this could be the case?
Attachments:
Last edit: 11 Oct 2019 14:30 by sss360.

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12 Oct 2019 07:28 #214646 by Scimike
So are we suggesting that the ABS system is monitoring the rear brake light load ? I.E reduced load of LED causes system to fail.
Looking at the circuit diagram above I can't see how it can measure load, just possibly volts present (brakes on).
Can anyone explain. Just interested and hopefully any answers may help.

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12 Oct 2019 07:33 #214647 by mlines
LEDs present a different load so the volt drop is different. You need LEDs with a built in load for it to work.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

Martin

2003 M13 early KAP build.
3" Trailmaster lift with 1.5 Spacers on front
Customised winch bumper and roll cage
235/85R16 Maxxis Bighorns on 16" Rims, 4:1 Rocklobster, Rear ARB locker and on-board air
Corrected arms all-round, rear disks, Recaro seats and harnesses

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12 Oct 2019 08:33 #214651 by Scimike
Ok thanks for that, I do understand they will present a reduce voltage drop. But looking at the circuit diagram the only monitoring point I can see is the Green/White wire, this implies it's looking for a voltage to indicate the brake lights are on. Voltage drop on a cable is a factor of load / distance / distance to monitoring point and cable specification. So let's assume with the correct bulbs fitted we are looking for 10v at the Green/White wire when the brake is applied.

So if this is correct the problem could be a cable break which is resulting in the Green/white monitoring cable not seeing the correct voltage?

The only things that make me doubt it's a simple voltage monitoring circuit are:

If it monitors the brake lights you should be able to start the vehicle and drive without an ABS fault UNTIL you apply the brakes.
If both bulbs are blown it will never know you applied the brakes, unless it also monitors the brake pedal as a separate function, but again no fault would appear until the brakes are applied.

Humm, I don't understand.

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12 Oct 2019 09:38 #214654 by mlines
Whilst voltage detection is simple, it does not work when the brake pedal is not pressed. Therefore it's more likely to be current leakage based.

The abs unit leaks current through the brake bulbs, just enough to see they are there but not enough to light them. LEDs, being diodes, need a forward voltage ( around 2volts) for them to conduct. Therefore they are high resistence until they conduct, the abs thinks they have failed.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

Martin

2003 M13 early KAP build.
3" Trailmaster lift with 1.5 Spacers on front
Customised winch bumper and roll cage
235/85R16 Maxxis Bighorns on 16" Rims, 4:1 Rocklobster, Rear ARB locker and on-board air
Corrected arms all-round, rear disks, Recaro seats and harnesses
The following user(s) said Thank You: Scimike

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12 Oct 2019 15:43 #214664 by Scimike
Thanks for explaining Martin. So SSS360 problem is likely to be a break in the cable between the connection point of sensor Green/White and the bulb holder, a fact confirmed by the PO mod wire bypassing this route.
Time to get the tester out and find the break, or add your own PO fix and add a second wire from the E142 terminal to the same bulb holder. If that don't work it's something else.
Good luck.

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14 Oct 2019 09:11 #214730 by sss360
Thanks both for the input! I didn't have chance to look any further but I think Scimike is right. Hopefully I'll just be able to complete the circuit and it will work.

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14 Oct 2019 14:53 - 14 Oct 2019 14:57 #214751 by sss360
OK, to close this topic off in the hope this may help somebody in the future...

The ABS unit does leak current to verify the brake bulbs are alive and well; the ABS unit wiring joins the brake light circuit between the brake light switch and the brake bulbs (in reality this is within the plug that goes into the brake switch). As such, if you have a wiring issue and the ABS circuit isn't "plumbed" into the brake circuit to verify the current your ABS won't work and the ABS error light will stay illuminated.

This will show as error code DTC C1016/DTC 16. Note that this isn't shown from the normal diagnostic port; if you haven't got a genuine Suzuki diagnostic reader you can read the code by shorting the circuit on the exposed ABS connector under the dash near the fuse box (this is described well in a Big Jimny wiki article). The ABS error light will then show a series of flashes for you to interpret (details in the workshop manual).

What I also learned is that the green/white wire that goes off to the ABS unit also links the brake light circuit into your ECU. I don't have a code reader to plug in, but I would bet money on it flagging an error there too.

I've fixed the problem by cutting into my new brake light cable and closing the circuit with the green/white cable running back off to the ABS/ECU.

No more error light and working ABS - problem solved! :woohoo:
Last edit: 14 Oct 2019 14:57 by sss360.
The following user(s) said Thank You: mlines, Lambert

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