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BigJimnyMeet (North) 2024 (12 Jan 2024)
BigJimnyMeet 2024
14th July 2024
Parkwood Nr. Leeds
14th July 2024
Parkwood Nr. Leeds
Booking now open - Discount for additional vehicles
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Suppliers/Dealers or anyone selling with a commercial view in mind CANNOT post here unless responding to a specific request of a member in a "wanted" post.
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Iva and towing limits
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08 Jun 2017 04:30 #181830
by Lambert
Temeraire (2018 quasar grey automatic)
One of the last 200ish of the gen3s, probably.
ADOS Attention Deficit Ooooh Shiny!
Iva and towing limits was created by Lambert
If and it's a big IF I were to take a Jimny and upgrade the brakes to vented front and disk rear, put an auto spec transfer box onto a vvt manual and swap the m13aa to m16 vvt so it had some guts and then submit it for an iva test could i stipulate a new higher tow limit be included on the paperwork?
Main reason why being there isn't much that is compact but that can tow. We have been looking at a selection of available things that are capable of legally towing 1800kg plus like yeti, kuga even duster and they are all really quite good at high speed high mpg driving but non of them inspired any confidence with a trailer on the back there's no low speed finesse not like a Jimny even in high range never mind the others not having low.
So yeah is it possible to modify a Jimny and then legally upscale the tow limit? Cheers in advance.
Main reason why being there isn't much that is compact but that can tow. We have been looking at a selection of available things that are capable of legally towing 1800kg plus like yeti, kuga even duster and they are all really quite good at high speed high mpg driving but non of them inspired any confidence with a trailer on the back there's no low speed finesse not like a Jimny even in high range never mind the others not having low.
So yeah is it possible to modify a Jimny and then legally upscale the tow limit? Cheers in advance.
Temeraire (2018 quasar grey automatic)
One of the last 200ish of the gen3s, probably.
ADOS Attention Deficit Ooooh Shiny!
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08 Jun 2017 12:34 #181850
by Busta
Replied by Busta on topic Iva and towing limits
I can't answer your question directly but I am fairly sure the towing capacity for a given vehicle is not based on it's power, braking capabilities or gearing. I'm reasonably sure it used to be based on the maximum load that could be held on the handbrake on a slope of a certain angle, hence the Defender with it's transmission break and permanent 4x4 was able to hold 3.5 tons and out perform part-time 4x4s with handbrakes operating only on the rear wheels.
If you are able to find out any more information I'd be interested to know your findings. I suspect that even if you did manage to raise the towing limit for your particular vehicle, insurers would be reluctant to cover you for towing large loads without charging a prohibitively hefty premium for it.
If you are able to find out any more information I'd be interested to know your findings. I suspect that even if you did manage to raise the towing limit for your particular vehicle, insurers would be reluctant to cover you for towing large loads without charging a prohibitively hefty premium for it.
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08 Jun 2017 14:31 #181854
by Rhinoman
How can that be the case unless the axles are permanently locked? you would still only have an effective handbrake on two wheels, in Germany the SJ with transmission brake had to have a handbrake actuated locker fitted, in order to improve the handbrake. I suspect its more to do with the size of the brakes, the Defenders weight, wheelbase and the amount of torque that it has.
I don't think that its possible to change the towing weight, if you were to submit it for an IVA how would you prove that it would be safe to tow a larger weight? stability will be an issue with a bigger trailer.
Some Suzukis and a bunch of motorcycles.
Replied by Rhinoman on topic Iva and towing limits
Busta wrote: hence the Defender with it's transmission break and permanent 4x4 was able to hold 3.5 tons and out perform part-time 4x4s with handbrakes operating only on the rear wheels.
How can that be the case unless the axles are permanently locked? you would still only have an effective handbrake on two wheels, in Germany the SJ with transmission brake had to have a handbrake actuated locker fitted, in order to improve the handbrake. I suspect its more to do with the size of the brakes, the Defenders weight, wheelbase and the amount of torque that it has.
I don't think that its possible to change the towing weight, if you were to submit it for an IVA how would you prove that it would be safe to tow a larger weight? stability will be an issue with a bigger trailer.
Some Suzukis and a bunch of motorcycles.
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- MWells
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08 Jun 2017 15:11 #181855
by MWells
Replied by MWells on topic Iva and towing limits
Rather than look at an IVA speak to
SVTech
, they are specialists in changing plated weights on vehicles and may be able to help or advise accordingly
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08 Jun 2017 15:41 - 08 Jun 2017 15:58 #181856
by mlines
Martin
2003 M13 early KAP build.
3" Trailmaster lift with 1.5 Spacers on front
Customised winch bumper and roll cage
235/85R16 Maxxis Bighorns on 16" Rims, 4:1 Rocklobster, Rear ARB locker and on-board air
Corrected arms all-round, rear disks, Recaro seats and harnesses
Replied by mlines on topic Iva and towing limits
The braking explanation also doesn't really explain how fitting a tachograph to some vehicles increases their towing capacity (LWB Defender)
And also the current Range Rover Sport where the more powerful and better braked Sport SVR has a lower towing weight (3000kg) compared to the less powerful and less braked standard Sport (3500kg)
And also the current Range Rover Sport where the more powerful and better braked Sport SVR has a lower towing weight (3000kg) compared to the less powerful and less braked standard Sport (3500kg)
Martin
2003 M13 early KAP build.
3" Trailmaster lift with 1.5 Spacers on front
Customised winch bumper and roll cage
235/85R16 Maxxis Bighorns on 16" Rims, 4:1 Rocklobster, Rear ARB locker and on-board air
Corrected arms all-round, rear disks, Recaro seats and harnesses
Last edit: 08 Jun 2017 15:58 by mlines.
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- rappey
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08 Jun 2017 17:24 #181865
by rappey
Replied by rappey on topic Iva and towing limits
I know this is american but it does include some jap vehicles too.. May help someway to explain how max towing weights are worked out..
www.trucktrend.com/news/163-0910-truck-towing-capacity/
www.trucktrend.com/news/163-0910-truck-towing-capacity/
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08 Jun 2017 18:14 #181868
by Lambert
Temeraire (2018 quasar grey automatic)
One of the last 200ish of the gen3s, probably.
ADOS Attention Deficit Ooooh Shiny!
Replied by Lambert on topic Iva and towing limits
Thanks all. I will look into this more and share my findings.
Temeraire (2018 quasar grey automatic)
One of the last 200ish of the gen3s, probably.
ADOS Attention Deficit Ooooh Shiny!
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09 Jun 2017 12:16 #181880
by Busta
I see what you are saying. It doesn't make much sense but it is what I have been told. In terms of weight, wheelbase and torque, many vehicles that exceed the Defender in all of these respects have lower towing limits, so it's not determined by those factors.
It may well be that manufacturers decide a figure they think represents a good compromise, regardless of the actual abilities of the vehicle.
Replied by Busta on topic Iva and towing limits
Rhinoman wrote:
Busta wrote: hence the Defender with it's transmission break and permanent 4x4 was able to hold 3.5 tons and out perform part-time 4x4s with handbrakes operating only on the rear wheels.
How can that be the case unless the axles are permanently locked? you would still only have an effective handbrake on two wheels, in Germany the SJ with transmission brake had to have a handbrake actuated locker fitted, in order to improve the handbrake. I suspect its more to do with the size of the brakes, the Defenders weight, wheelbase and the amount of torque that it has.
I don't think that its possible to change the towing weight, if you were to submit it for an IVA how would you prove that it would be safe to tow a larger weight? stability will be an issue with a bigger trailer.
I see what you are saying. It doesn't make much sense but it is what I have been told. In terms of weight, wheelbase and torque, many vehicles that exceed the Defender in all of these respects have lower towing limits, so it's not determined by those factors.
It may well be that manufacturers decide a figure they think represents a good compromise, regardless of the actual abilities of the vehicle.
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09 Jun 2017 12:26 - 09 Jun 2017 12:27 #181881
by Busta
I think this points towards the limit being set by the manufacturer rather than determined by any sort of government test.
Replied by Busta on topic Iva and towing limits
Only if towing for hire or reward, where a tachograph is required if the MAM exceeds 3.5 tons. For personal use you do not need a tachograph and can tow 3.5 tons behind any Defender (license dependent).mlines wrote: The braking explanation also doesn't really explain how fitting a tachograph to some vehicles increases their towing capacity (LWB Defender)
mlines wrote: And also the current Range Rover Sport where the more powerful and better braked Sport SVR has a lower towing weight (3000kg) compared to the less powerful and less braked standard Sport (3500kg)
I think this points towards the limit being set by the manufacturer rather than determined by any sort of government test.
Last edit: 09 Jun 2017 12:27 by Busta.
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- rappey
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09 Jun 2017 16:46 #181893
by rappey
Replied by rappey on topic Iva and towing limits
Since 2001 and the introduction of emission levels and paying road fund license based on them some vehicles are not allowed to tow at all !
If you want to tow 3500kg then thats really going to push up the emissions and tax level of that vehicle !
Mechanical strain on the vehicles powertrain under acceleration and braking while towing have a big part to play...
There is a vid where a jimny pulls a 82 ton road train... Its not about what it can pull, but what it can sustain without physical damage to the vehicle in extreme circumstances like steep hills, or a huge headwind.
If you want to tow a heavier weight then get a more suitable vehicle.. Same for if you want to go a lot faster ?
If you want to tow 3500kg then thats really going to push up the emissions and tax level of that vehicle !
Mechanical strain on the vehicles powertrain under acceleration and braking while towing have a big part to play...
There is a vid where a jimny pulls a 82 ton road train... Its not about what it can pull, but what it can sustain without physical damage to the vehicle in extreme circumstances like steep hills, or a huge headwind.
If you want to tow a heavier weight then get a more suitable vehicle.. Same for if you want to go a lot faster ?
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10 Jun 2017 05:23 #181901
by Lambert
Temeraire (2018 quasar grey automatic)
One of the last 200ish of the gen3s, probably.
ADOS Attention Deficit Ooooh Shiny!
Replied by Lambert on topic Iva and towing limits
Right, having read the iva manual it suggests that under section 44 masses and dimensions that if a vehicle is intended to tow a braked trailer then its technical weight being the gvm is the maximum unless it is a 4x4 at which point it becomes 1.5 times the technical mass which for an otherwise standard Jimny would be something like 1900kg but it would also have to be demonstrated that the coupling was suitable under section 50 and the brakes under section 46. There is hope. I have a n opportunity to talk to an iva centre next week so the quest continues.
Temeraire (2018 quasar grey automatic)
One of the last 200ish of the gen3s, probably.
ADOS Attention Deficit Ooooh Shiny!
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- OllieNZ
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10 Jun 2017 05:39 #181902
by OllieNZ
Replied by OllieNZ on topic Re:RE: Iva and towing limits
A jimny can't use 4wd on the road so imo it doesn't count as a 4wd for towing. Defenders have full time 4wd. Something like a 2nd Gen>on pajero, 3rd gen hilux surf or 90 series land cruiser despite being primarily 2wd have a center diff allowing 4wd to be used on road. There will be others that fit in those categories.11/60 wrote: Right, having read the iva manual it suggests that under section 44 masses and dimensions that if a vehicle is intended to tow a braked trailer then its technical weight being the gvm is the maximum unless it is a 4x4 at which point it becomes 1.5 times the technical mass which for an otherwise standard Jimny would be something like 1900kg but it would also have to be demonstrated that the coupling was suitable under section 50 and the brakes under section 46. There is hope. I have a n opportunity to talk to an iva centre next week so the quest continues.
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