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Re:Gen 4 Battery swap

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05 Sep 2020 03:52 - 05 Sep 2020 09:03 #227748 by GeorgeC
Replied by GeorgeC on topic Re:Gen 4 Battery swap

GeorgeC wrote: Meanwhile, its Battery Day later today, I'll check the Resting Voltage and see if the RAC Man's temporary fix has worked. :unsure:

11:00 hrs, the weekly resting voltage test, 12.60V at the terminals, that is usable, but what I would expect prior to trying the fix.
I put the Solar Panel out in the sun, for 6 hours @ 60-300mA, this has brought the voltage up to 13.02V.

I'll see how it goes on Monday.
Last edit: 05 Sep 2020 09:03 by GeorgeC.

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06 Sep 2020 03:16 - 06 Sep 2020 03:55 #227806 by GeorgeC
Replied by GeorgeC on topic Re:Gen 4 Battery swap

mlines wrote: George appears to have an electrical load management issue possibly due to a wiring fault (earth) combined with his driving profile.
He makes very short trips with full electrical and electro-mechanical (aircon) load. Perth Australia is hot!
The vehicle appears to react to this load by commanding the alternator to reduce volts to lighten the load on the engine, this is the normal function of the LIM circuit on the alternator.
As the journey is short, the battery never gets charged and eventually discharges completely.
As no-one else reports this, there is likely to be some sort of fault that encourages the load sensing on the battery to limit the alternator more than it does on other Jimnys
The interim "cure" is to press the OFF button on the AirCon that disengages the aircon compressor clutch. This reduces the engine load and allows the alternator to start charging the battery as the engine can now provide the energy.
This is what George means by turning the alternator on/off, he is referring to the aircon clutch which has this effect.
Martin

Update time:
I don't always catch the full meaning the first time I hear and or read something, there is always a deeper message I miss.
For the OFF Button to enable the "fix", the car needs to be stopped, probably in Park, everything off, just as the RAC Man demonstrated.
Trying to drive home with the "fix" enabled did not work, as the resting voltage shows, only 12.6V.
There are many electrical loads that restore the normal alternator features, smart charging, as you drive.
Pages 6-42, 43 in the Manual shows the fuse values for many loads that may be switching off the alternator as I drive. The Power Steering and Thermo Fan, both 40A fuses, for example.
I have read in this forum of Gen4 owners charging the battery for 10 minutes in the driveway during lockdown. I can now see how that could be done, by using the "OFF" switch.
I don't see this as a 'daily drivable' solution. A pre-drive warm up may restore some of the starting energy. Using the off button at red lights may also help a little. :(

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Last edit: 06 Sep 2020 03:55 by GeorgeC.

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06 Sep 2020 09:40 #227812 by Grim Reaper
Replied by Grim Reaper on topic Re:Gen 4 Battery swap
I don't understand the logic behind this, in a VW Transporter for example, the alternator is forced ON by use of the Air Conditioning, the logic being that an extra load on the battery requires the alternator to offset any drain.
Have you got a DC clamp meter that you can put around the lead to the battery or the lead to the alternator to monitor current drain/feed from the battery? Then by monitoring this whilst turning various items on/off you can see if the charging system is working or not.
This thread from the T6 forum might assist in a search for a battery monitor, some of the devices have a graph display that can show voltage drops and rises throughout the day.
www.t6forum.com/threads/battery-monitoring-how-i-done-it.15346/

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07 Sep 2020 02:09 - 08 Sep 2020 11:09 #227858 by GeorgeC
Replied by GeorgeC on topic Re:Gen 4 Battery swap

GeorgeC wrote:

GeorgeC wrote: Meanwhile, its Battery Day later today, I'll check the Resting Voltage and see if the RAC Man's temporary fix has worked. :unsure:

11:00 hrs, the weekly resting voltage test, 12.60V at the terminals, that is usable, but what I would expect prior to trying the fix.
I put the Solar Panel out in the sun, for 6 hours @ 60-300mA, this has brought the voltage up to 13.02V.
I'll see how it goes on Monday.

Monday: A 10 minute warm up, clean the windows, all with the "OFF" button depressed. I then drove to the shops carefully managing the load. I checked the voltage on parking with the engine still running, the mid 12Vs was it! On arrival home with the engine still running, the best was mid 13Vs! No 14-point-anything volts and that's with the "OFF" button depressed and the engine running!
I have to accept the RAC Man is right, the Smart Controller would eventually fail and this event seems to be getting closer with each drive! :(

Tomorrow we will find out what "Return to the Selling Dealer" really means! :unsure:
Edit: My son phoned up. Its a polite invite to the return to the selling dealer, for a service, a car trade-in or an upgrade! After all, it's now over eighteen months old and has almost nine hundred kilometres on it!
Last edit: 08 Sep 2020 11:09 by GeorgeC.

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10 Sep 2020 22:04 #228063 by Roger Fairclough
Hi George.
Enough is enough, if the dealer wont play ball you need to find out if anyone else has suffered this problem. All the comments re: short journeys and excess use of air con are frankly irrelevant, the car was sold in Perth and as such must be capable of working in that sort of environment. You only need one other person with similar problems and you have proof that there is a wider problem than just your motor. If you can't find anyone else then the dealer must accept that yours is a rogue and guarantee to fix it, give you your money back or replace it. You cannot be expected to continue in this manner and the dealer must accept responsibility.Play the ace and say that it is dangerous and could endanger lives.

Roger

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12 Sep 2020 09:18 - 12 Sep 2020 20:01 #228103 by GeorgeC
Replied by GeorgeC on topic Re:Gen 4 Battery swap

Roger Fairclough wrote: Hi George. Enough is enough, if the dealer wont play ball you need to find out if anyone else has suffered this problem. All the comments re: short journeys and excess use of air con are frankly irrelevant, the car was sold in Perth and as such must be capable of working in that sort of environment. You only need one other person with similar problems and you have proof that there is a wider problem than just your motor. If you can't find anyone else then the dealer must accept that yours is a rogue and guarantee to fix it, give you your money back or replace it. You cannot be expected to continue in this manner and the dealer must accept responsibility.Play the ace and say that it is dangerous and could endanger lives. Roger

Roger, while hunting around for our Infotainment Update, I found this Suzuki Page in India: www.marutisuzuki.com/service
Their suggestion in Vehicle Maintenance Tips, halfway down the page, is not un-like what I am doing each Saturday with the solar panel and similar to what ACDelco recommend as a monthly ritual, remove, replace and recharge the battery! Now what's that called again?? I remember, its a Gen 4 Battery swap! :(
Last edit: 12 Sep 2020 20:01 by GeorgeC.

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30 Sep 2020 19:27 - 30 Sep 2020 19:53 #228656 by GeorgeC
Replied by GeorgeC on topic Re:Gen 4 Battery swap
We have some good data and observations in this topic and more in www.bigjimny.com/index.php/forum/6-jimny...rol-off-gen-4#228222 that relate to the Battery and the Gen 4 Smart Charging System.

If someone has the time and skills (hint), It may be worth further investigation of the "OFF" Button function on the Climate Control Panel and its influence on the Battery Charging system. I believe there may be different outcomes for "touch", "long touch", "multi touch", and "hold". ;)
Last edit: 30 Sep 2020 19:53 by GeorgeC.

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30 Sep 2020 20:35 #228658 by mlines
Replied by mlines on topic Re:Re:Gen 4 Battery swap
I can see no reference in the service manual at all to any function in the Aircon on/off switch beyond turning the Aircon off and on.

I think it is effectively nothing more than a way of turning off and on the compressor clutch ( ok, not directly but via the controller and bcm).

The Aircon controller does take a copy of the Lim signal from the alternator/ECU but it describes it as an electrical load input probably telling the Aircon to back off if the car is overloaded.

If there was some other function I would expect the manual to say so.

The Aircon computer DOES set a DTC code if the lim signal is corrupt and flashes the AUTO light to complain

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

Martin

2003 M13 early KAP build.
3" Trailmaster lift with 1.5 Spacers on front
Customised winch bumper and roll cage
235/85R16 Maxxis Bighorns on 16" Rims, 4:1 Rocklobster, Rear ARB locker and on-board air
Corrected arms all-round, rear disks, Recaro seats and harnesses
The following user(s) said Thank You: GeorgeC

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30 Sep 2020 20:37 - 30 Sep 2020 20:42 #228659 by lightning
Replied by lightning on topic Re:Gen 4 Battery swap
Battery charging problems shouldn't be an issue in a modern car.
The alternator can typically deliver 60 amps which will fully charge the battery in around an hour.
Even if you only do short journeys with the lights and aircon switched on, it shouldn't be a problem.

The last time l had battery charge issues was back in 1982 when my daily driver was a 1968 Triumph Herald.

ln all the other cars l have owned, l've never had a flat battery unless said battery was at the end of its life.

There should be no necessity to faff about with the aircon buttons, or take off the battery every few weeks and charge it up.

l used to drive a small Renault Kangoo van and even on continuous short journeys in Winter with the aircon, lights, HRW, wipers and heater in constant use l never had a problem.
Last edit: 30 Sep 2020 20:42 by lightning.

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10 Oct 2020 07:37 #228965 by GeorgeC
Replied by GeorgeC on topic Re:Gen 4 Battery swap
For almost 18 months its been my tradition to top-up the battery on Saturday, why change?

When you have a Solar Panel and a Battery and the Sun comes out: ;)

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10 Oct 2020 08:38 - 10 Oct 2020 08:40 #228970 by lightning
Replied by lightning on topic Re:Gen 4 Battery swap
Well it won't do any harm, but why bother? Charging your battery every weekend was a thing when cars had a dynamo back in the 1970's, and then it was only during the Winter.
Although l do have a maintenance charger for my motorcycle battery as it rarely moves between October and March, and the battery is quite small so has much less in reserve.
The last time l had a flat battery in a car was around thirty years ago.
Currently our Jimny is getting almost no use, but the battery has been fine, l connected the maintenance charger to it this morning as it's not moved since last Sunday and it's declared the battery still fully charged.
Last edit: 10 Oct 2020 08:40 by lightning.
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17 Oct 2020 01:10 - 17 Oct 2020 03:56 #229189 by GeorgeC
Replied by GeorgeC on topic Re:Gen 4 Battery swap
It's Saturday Morning again and FiFi, the Cat, is patiently waiting for me to move the chair into the sun and bring out the Solar Panel. Then I remembered "Lightning", he will be wondering what's happening today in The Sunburnt Country. Well, this week nothing! I'm now letting the EFB battery rest on the bench for 4 weeks to observe it's resting voltage. It will go on the 240V charger after that time. As for the Cat, she is spending the day under the table, sleeping on the chair, just like last week (see photo).
Cheers all, George. B)
Last edit: 17 Oct 2020 03:56 by GeorgeC.

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