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BigJimnyMeet (North) 2024 (12 Jan 2024)


BigJimnyMeet 2024

14th July 2024
Parkwood Nr. Leeds

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Sand advice needed

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28 Sep 2022 11:29 - 28 Sep 2022 14:51 #245172 by slewbangles
Hey everyone!

I was a proud owner of an '85 SJ, then went Landy, then KTM and now I just bought a spicy 2021 Gen 4!

I took it on it's first off-road outing this past weekend and there were deep sand tracks to get to the beach.

I was quite loaded for camping so set tyre pressure to 1.2 to be safe and started in 4H till it got stuck around the first bend, so I dropped it into 4L and feathered the clutch to get as slow traction as possible and the car wouldn't budge, like it was stopped by a wall

Normally the tyres would just spin and dig in but the tyres weren't going anywhere, even at high revs (which my clutch hated) so I eventually reversed out in 4L which was also a massive struggle.

I have 215/75 Dunlop ATG3s on and I know I could have gone down to 0.6 bar but the wheels should at least spin out even with higher pressures, rather then feel like zero torque, maybe the TC was interfering?

As I mentioned, brand new to Jimny gen 4, but do have prior off-road experience (mostly adventure bikes), so would love any input as to how the car bogged so easily

Car does has a 40mm tough dog lift on, its a manual 5spd gearbox, and the overall camping weight was maybe 80kg including roof top tent

Looking forward to your responses!

Luke
Last edit: 28 Sep 2022 14:51 by slewbangles.

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28 Sep 2022 13:59 #245174 by 300bhpton
Replied by 300bhpton on topic Sand advice needed
Not sure I fully understand.

What do you mean by 2L? Do you mean low range, in which case it will be 4wd, sometimes called 4L.

Do you have any footage of the issue you are describing? Was the clutch slipping or did the engine stall?

Ultimately, if the output shaft from the gearbox was rotating and the wheels weren't, something must be broken. It's either that or you weren't sending drive to the wheels. But something would have to give somewhere, such as a slipped clutch, snapped shaft or stalled engine.
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28 Sep 2022 14:09 #245175 by fordem
Replied by fordem on topic Sand advice needed

Normally the tyres would just spin and dig in but the tyres weren't going anyway, even at high revs (which my clutch hated) so I eventually reversed out in 2L which was also a massive struggle.
 

I am a little puzzled by this statement - are you saying that the tires were NOT spinning in the sand?  Also, what do you mean by 2L?

The only thing I can think of that might cause that is the traction control system, it's an ABS based system and will brake any wheel that spins in an attempt to redirect torque to wheels that have more traction - the traction control is  part of the ESP system and can be disabled using one of the switches on the dash, shifting into low range should also disable it.
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28 Sep 2022 14:43 #245178 by slewbangles
Replied by slewbangles on topic Sand advice needed
Sorry I had a complete brain fart writing that:
I meant 4H, 4L

In short I was in 4L with mostly deflated tyres and there was what felt like no power going to the wheels, the clutch did burn and eventually stall but after I let her cool down she made the 500km trip home no hassles

What do you mean by sending drive to the wheels? my foot was almost flat on the accelerator (no clutch) and the tyres would just not spin in the sand

the car is quite new, 20,000km on the clock

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28 Sep 2022 14:48 #245179 by slewbangles
Replied by slewbangles on topic Sand advice needed
Sorry I wrote it incorrectly, I meant 4L...

Yes with full gas in 4L and mostly deflated tyres the wheels weren't going anywhere.

Coming from Motobikes I learnt the first thing in sand is turn off is the traction control, as it tried to prevent tyres from spinning preventing any forward momentum driven by the rear

I forgot to turn it off in 4H, and wasn't aware it turned itself off in 4L

but what it personally felt like the engine cutting power down to prevent the wheels spinning on sand

Or I can be an absolute moron and doing something wrong, which hopefully shouldn't be the case

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29 Sep 2022 07:48 #245193 by saxj
Replied by saxj on topic Sand advice needed

Normally the tyres would just spin and dig in but the tyres weren't going anyway, even at high revs (which my clutch hated) so I eventually reversed out in 2L which was also a massive struggle.

 

I am a little puzzled by this statement - are you saying that the tires were NOT spinning in the sand?  Also, what do you mean by 2L?

The only thing I can think of that might cause that is the traction control system, it's an ABS based system and will brake any wheel that spins in an attempt to redirect torque to wheels that have more traction - the traction control is  part of the ESP system and can be disabled using one of the switches on the dash, shifting into low range should also disable it.
You can not turn off the brake traction control (not without modification). ESP gets disabled in 4L. You can turn off ESP in 4H, but it reenables at 30kph, which is not much help for driving in sand.

The solution is to drive the Jimny as it should be driven - with momentum. If you drive the Jimny as if it didn't have any traction aids, then the traction control works at it's best.
 
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29 Sep 2022 08:08 - 29 Sep 2022 09:50 #245195 by Scimike
Replied by Scimike on topic Sand advice needed
I had a VW.Polo TDI in which the ESP system would reduce engine power to the wheels to prevent spinning. Very obvious on a snow covered hill, impossible to pull away with any power (ESP on) but no wheel spin, massive wheel spin possible ESP off. 
So just confirming these systems can interact and reduce power.

What I don't know is if the GEN4 systems are as invasive as those on the TDI.

So I've seen what I believe you are trying to explain on a VW car with ESP active.

However even on the VW, accelerator full, clutch out the engine would back off to, or remain at tickover. At this point the wheels are still turning albeit very slowly. Yours must be turning at some point, this even if we assume a power reduction system can be applied to the G4. If they are not something is broken or you have not noticed the wheel movement.

 

Yokohama Geolanders, Sony head unit, NAUTILUS Air Horn, DRL conversion, Rear cargo space, Elvis Bobblehead, transfer Guard, Indian hanging Elephant, Koni Heavy track dampers, Custom SS exhaust, Voodoo Doll, Adventure Rack with LED ight bar, vintage ERIBA caravan usually attached (yes it's slow)
Last edit: 29 Sep 2022 09:50 by Scimike.
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30 Sep 2022 08:39 #245230 by lightning
Replied by lightning on topic Sand advice needed
lt sounds to me like there's something wrong with the transmission because it shouldn't stop the drive to ALL the wheels.

lt can send drive to only one wheel though, l've seen a test where the Jimny had three wheels on rollers and one on tarmac. The drive was sent to the one wheel that had grip, after a couple of seconds.

So you may have had one wheel turning and three stationary.

However l am not sure if this system is disabled in 4L in which case l would check that you still have 4WD and nothing in the transmission is broken.

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30 Sep 2022 09:00 #245231 by saxj
Replied by saxj on topic Sand advice needed

I had a VW.Polo TDI in which the ESP system would reduce engine power to the wheels to prevent spinning. Very obvious on a snow covered hill, impossible to pull away with any power (ESP on) but no wheel spin, massive wheel spin possible ESP off. 
So just confirming these systems can interact and reduce power.

What I don't know is if the GEN4 systems are as invasive as those on the TDI.

So I've seen what I believe you are trying to explain on a VW car with ESP active.

However even on the VW, accelerator full, clutch out the engine would back off to, or remain at tickover. At this point the wheels are still turning albeit very slowly. Yours must be turning at some point, this even if we assume a power reduction system can be applied to the G4. If they are not something is broken or you have not noticed the wheel movement.


 
Fortunately the Jimny doesn't have that form of traction control, where power is reduced to prevent wheel spin.

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