Why I gave up on BMW bikes...

Bit of a rant aimed at BMW in particular at the end.


Build Quality .
My impression - Vehicles seem to get softer as time progresses.

Hilux - In the late 90s we used a Hilux 4x4 for fieldwork in Swaziland. Identical to the indestructible one tested by Top Gear. It was just that. Hard working, well built, no issues. My neighbor has a new Hilux and complains about the body developing dents when you enthusiastically pass wind next to it.

Rav4 - We have a 1997 Rav4 4 door. Bought it second hand for R 65 000 in 2012 or so. The one using the 2 litre Camry engine.
Issues so far: Once broke down 5 km from home - timing belt snapped while driving. Non interference engine so nothing got damaged. Quick and cheap to fit a new one.

Offroad use: We have used this car offroad on a number of trips to Moz. Lots of sand. No issues. We daily climbed a steep sand road to the lodge that a Land Cruiser VX could not get up. (Most likely the weight and/or tyres not deflated correctly).

On a 2016 trip to Inhambane we saw a LOT of the locals use the same old model Rav4. NO newer models in sight at all. This leads me to believe that the older models are more suited to that kind of environment.



BMW 1200 GS / GS Adventure progression

1150GSA - I liked the tractor like appearance. No plastics. What you see is what you get.
1200GSA Air Cooled - Same basic engine design, same tyres, more power, more plastic, electronic ride height adjustment.

The air cooled 1200s were acceptable to me, which is why I got a 2012 model. I still preferred the look of the older 1150s though. BMW motorcycles are not really known for their reliability thus it took me quite a while to actually trust the bike with its onboard computer.

Then they went liquid cooled and this turned turned me into an apostate:

* They radically changed the engine internals.

* More power and torque. (What the hell for? I never got close to using the full 82kw on my air cooled). Incredible performance increase if that is what boats your float....

* Electronic fly by wire throttle. (Dont like it. Don't trust it.)

* They screwed up the riding dynamics somehow and right after the accident that killed Kevin Ash here in SA, all of them suddenly had to be fitted with steering dampers. None of the older GSs needed steering dampers.

* They downward engineered and @#$%ked up the fork stanchion design leading to crashes that severely injured a number of riders. Major recall.

* They switched from the proven paddle indicator switches to a cheap flimsy thumb operated switch which I hated. Go learn from the Japs how to make proper feeling swithes dammit.

* They needlessly complicated the seat height adjustment. During my last test ride on a 1250 it took me and the sales guy about three minutes to figure out how to get the seat in the highest position.

* They added a fancy rotating windscreen knob that moved the windscreen up and down.

One of these almost killed me: On my old GSA the bottom of the winsdcreen slipped into slots and was tightened on each side using screwed knobs. This kept the windscreen perfectly still at any speed.

The new design caused the windscreen to flap back and forth and almost distracted me on a test ride to the point of ending up in a ditch.

* The new bikes use wider and lower profile tyres, compromising its offroad ability.

* Dont like the IPAD that they replaced the instrument panel with. Its a lot more advanced and able to display errors that weren't posible on the previous bikes. (I do not have issues with computers. I am a db developer and spend 8+ hrs per day in front of a screen).

* I distrust the continuous ride adjustments made by the computer

* Design. You drive along a dirt road in the middle of nowhere and see a biker having a smoke break by the side of the road. He's standing beside an old 1150 or aircooled 1200 circa 2008. "Damn that's cool!" you think.

Same scenario with a new fancy 1250: "What are you? Lost tourist?"

A low level crash on on of the newer bikes can damage plastics worth more than an older 2nd hand bike.

A last point is the frequency of new models. When I traded in my GSA it was already two models behind. On a still night I could hear the damn thing losing value.



This is all personal. Guys who ride the new bikes love them, but unfortunately I fall in the small minority of people who prefer stuff being simpler and more reliable... I simply could not bring myself to pay that much more for a once iconic bike that got soft.



I love what Suzuki have done with the entire Jimny range and since the GEN3 had a 20 year run, I am not worried about them getting lost in SUV territory anytime soon.

It's good to let off steam every now and again.

I hear your argument. In the case of the RAV4 you can see it appear more in reliability surveys as the years progress. A friend of mine last year purchased a pre 2000 model and would not even look at newer models. He had come to the same conclusion, new = more faults in the RAV4.
Maybe this is not an issue if you can afford to run new and just keep taking it back under warranty, but in the out of warranty market it's a big thing.

I my personal opinion it appears the more complex they make the base model the more reasons their are for it to go wrong. Electronic gizmos and emission control systems clutter modern vehicles raising the chances of problems.

That's what I like about the Jimny, it's been kept as simple as possible.

BMW are not alone. My 2012 Tiger 800 rear foot peg hangers are part of the frame. A low speed drop and you could bend the hangers, result new frame. This is as designed by Triumph on an adventure off road bike, what were they thinking \%*£#?
On all my pre 2000 bikes the hanger is a separate bolt on subframe, designed to save the main frame from damage.

Modern progress feeding the throw away society again. (My little rant)

When Leyland, BMW,Rover came up with the E series engine they considered mating the engine to the g/box with PK screws in an an attempt to save costs. It would have meant that problems with the clutch could only be resolved by replacing the engine/g/box as a unit.
In a lighter note I love the toaster that 14 year old Mathew Lucci built. He added a turbo and a 12,000 rpm motor. It could eject a slice of toasted bread to a height of 15 ft.
Or,
Peter Svensson, he added a 670hp motor to make the Worlds most powerful pencil sharpener.

Merry Christmas

Roger

Roger Fairclough wrote: When Leyland, BMW,Rover came up with the E series engine they considered mating the engine to the g/box with PK screws in an an attempt to save costs. It would have meant that problems with the clutch could only be resolved by replacing the engine/g/box as a unit.
In a lighter note I love the toaster that 14 year old Mathew Lucci built. He added a turbo and a 12,000 rpm motor. It could eject a slice of toasted bread to a height of 15 ft.
Or,
Peter Svensson, he added a 670hp motor to make the Worlds most powerful pencil sharpener.

Merry Christmas

Roger

I would LOVE to see a cat next to that toaster when it goes off!!!!

It ain't just BMW ( though they are probably the worst for it.) all newer bikes are now riddled with useless gimmicks that are brought over from the car world or 'safety' features .
As a job I'm a dispatch rider for a blood lab ( now but on open circuit for 20 odd years.) They decided to supply the bikes which means no more weekends servicing and repairing for me, though I still keep my 80s Suzuki Katanas .
So they got us * onda dulvilles 700 's ...linked brakes ...*****ing dangerous in the ice and snow, espiecally on roundabouts , ABS on a bike on a potholed road means the brakes go stiff and don't work! The clutch was goosed after 18000 miles of filtering .
We sold these off quickly , got Suzuki Bandits which are basically old school , apart from the ABS which we adapted to , used these for 250000 miles no issues really .
Now we have. V storm 650 which have done 65000 in 2 years with the same issue re ABS but as they are not built for these milages the cheap electric connectors and
loom wire is the same as cars , so has worn though on one bike .
My air cooled 80s bikes don't have cut out switches , can be serviced with ripping tons of bodywork off and still on original bits despite the milages

This thread is looking like a sort of post-Christmas and frustrated house arrest therapy session. So here's my tuppence worth! My eye was drawn to the BMW bike thread title on a Suzuki forum. I should have known better than to open Pandora's box - but I did and the nightmares returned - but not about BMW bikes, in my case it was about KTM motorcycles. Oh how I have regretted ever spending my cash on that brand of bike. I saw the off-road capabilities of KTM bikes on the Paris to Dakar rally, I was seduced by the designs and I dug deep into my savings to buy a brand new bike. Biggest purchasing mistake I've ever made and the most grief I've ever had to suffer with a vehicle - the electro-trickery systems failed, the KTM dealer didn't have the correct diagnostic tools (or expertise or experience) to fix the bike (and neither did another KTM dealer). The KTM UK and Austrian offices were unimpressive when I approached them directly - in terms of resolving the technical issues. Anything man-made can and often does go wrong at some stage - but I rate brands by how they treat the customer if and when they face a problem. Funnily enough for the original poster (Groenewald) I'm now riding a new BMW bike - it may not be perfect and I can see where the accountants have been shaving a few Euros on components but compared to KTM it's in a different quality league (both the bike and the dealer). One common feature on many vehicles is that component failures usually seem to relate to the electronics - they often seem to be too fragile for the temperature changes, vibration levels and humidity cycles of everyday motoring/riding.

My 1977 Triumph doesn’t suffer from these fancy new systems which are prone to breaking down. It also has Lockheed opposed piston disc brakes so it stops as we’ll.

Fossie wrote: I still keep my 80s Suzuki Katanas

Oooh very nice. 750 or 1100 or both?
It's one of my favourite bikes and started my riding years. Not ridden, but taken for a pillion ride on a 750, sold on bikes from that moment. Could not believe anything road legal could accelerate that fast. Still one of my favourites to see at the bikes shows. Not many on the road.

Fossie wrote: Now we have. V storm 650 which have done 65000 in 2 years with the same issue re ABS but as they are not built for these milages

I've had a DL650 from nearly new and it destroyed it's ABS sensor within the first 6000 miles. Just out of warranty obviously!

Nice machine, but I do have a hankering for a varadero with heated grips that work and better luggage.