INEOS GRENDIER - What do you guys think?

Well l hope it's a success for them. Plenty of people are spanking £50,000 on the new Defender when they could have bought an alternative for £20,000 less.

Nobody will know for sure until the Grenadier actually goes on sale.

Scimike wrote: I hope they succeed, but I am not sure they have the pricing or the target customer correct. I am sure it will sell in low numbers just as the original (outgoing) Defender did, but when you can get a L200 for 21K as a work vehicle why would you pay over double this for the Ineos offering?
So that's the work community out, it only leaves it as a possible Chelsea tractor and the badge is not established enough for this.
Ineso, they make chemicals and hand sanitiser and are having a go at a 4x4....... No pedigree for the badge chasers.
So that leaves the need to be different people as customers, and they tend to keep things for a year then move on to the latest and greatest.
Only my view on the potential Ineos customer base, I am sure they have done their homework and have a different view.

I'm not going to defender the price. As for me it is beyond my means by quite a bit.

However, when you look at the price of what is available, it sadly may not be so far a drift.

I believe Nissan have pulled out of the UK market BTW. So the L200 won't be a contender.


But looking at other alternatives:

The Ford Ranger may look like it starts from low prices, but the Wildtrack version starts at £31k + VAT and I daresay realistically is going to cost in the region of £35k+VAT OTR. I suspect this would be a more direct comparable spec to the Grenadier.

The same is true for an equivalent specced Toyota Hi-Lux.


A utility Toyota Land Cruiser ranges from £36k-41k, so I guess people must be paying this for a work truck.

300bhpton wrote:

Scimike wrote: I hope they succeed, but I am not sure they have the pricing or the target customer correct. I am sure it will sell in low numbers just as the original (outgoing) Defender did, but when you can get a L200 for 21K as a work vehicle why would you pay over double this for the Ineos offering?
So that's the work community out, it only leaves it as a possible Chelsea tractor and the badge is not established enough for this.
Ineso, they make chemicals and hand sanitiser and are having a go at a 4x4....... No pedigree for the badge chasers.
So that leaves the need to be different people as customers, and they tend to keep things for a year then move on to the latest and greatest.
Only my view on the potential Ineos customer base, I am sure they have done their homework and have a different view.

I'm not going to defender the price. As for me it is beyond my means by quite a bit.

However, when you look at the price of what is available, it sadly may not be so far a drift.

I believe Nissan have pulled out of the UK market BTW. So the L200 won't be a contender.


But looking at other alternatives:

The Ford Ranger may look like it starts from low prices, but the Wildtrack version starts at £31k + VAT and I daresay realistically is going to cost in the region of £35k+VAT OTR. I suspect this would be a more direct comparable spec to the Grenadier.

The same is true for an equivalent specced Toyota Hi-Lux.


A utility Toyota Land Cruiser ranges from £36k-41k, so I guess people must be paying this for a work truck.

You can argue about speccing up a Ranger to the max and than saying it's equivalent to an Ineos. But then you're forgetting that business, utilities and agricultural users aren't speccing 20 inch alloys, Android Auto and Leather inside. For a significant amount of people a 4wd is a tool to earn money with.

And for 22k ex vat you can have a bog standard Ford Ranger crew cab with a 170bhp Diesel which isn't a great deal of money in the grand scheme of things.

That's why it's the best selling crew cab for 3 years running. It's cheap and it works. At one point they were shifting more than the Hilux/Navara and L200 combined in the UK.

There's a limited market for crew cabs, not ideal for mountain rescue or military for instance.

lightning wrote: There's a limited market for crew cabs, not ideal for mountain rescue or military for instance.

"With the help of T.C. Harrison, Tippers, Co-op (park farm) and local support from other businesses we finally have a vehicle suitable for operation use that will also be more efficient for the team. 'Mobile 2' will comfortably transport five team members, all gear for a Crag Rescue, medical equipment and enough equipment for a hasty search."

www.derbymrt.org.uk/p/news/introducing-mobile-2

They're not the only ones using it.

I'm sure the boffins at INEOS have done thorough market research, but I think we can all unilaterally agree that the price point released thus far is a bit steep..

I think they're targeting the Jeep wranglers, Toyota land cruisers, 2020 defenders and Mercedes G-Wagon customers. But who knows, maybe they'll launch a bare bones stripped out commercial SWB version if they get enough interest. If that was the case, I personally don't think there's much out there that could compete with it. (Pickups are in a different class IMO).

Lambert wrote: Interested to hear about the swb version but again it has to be able to tow be properly shorter and sufficiently basic that it can be disinfected and washed inside with a hosepipe. And I'm not paying 30 to 40 thousand pounds for that.

Does not appear to stop a lot of people, maybe use a pressure washer as it ok on most interiors

Podge wrote: You can argue about speccing up a Ranger to the max and than saying it's equivalent to an Ineos. But then you're forgetting that business, utilities and agricultural users aren't speccing 20 inch alloys, Android Auto and Leather inside. For a significant amount of people a 4wd is a tool to earn money with.

And for 22k ex vat you can have a bog standard Ford Ranger crew cab with a 170bhp Diesel which isn't a great deal of money in the grand scheme of things.

That's why it's the best selling crew cab for 3 years running. It's cheap and it works. At one point they were shifting more than the Hilux/Navara and L200 combined in the UK.

That isn't speccing it to the max, you can make the Ranger a lot more pricey and that is even ignoring the Raptor variant.

And if I'm brutally honest, I see very very few low spec or base model pickups of any type. But especially Rangers. I don't know the sales split, but observationally I see a lot of high spec and a lot of Wildtracks about. And certainly any on a farm round this way are of higher spec.

The Hilux is exactly the same, if not slightly more pricey.

And lets not forget the Land Cruiser, which is arguably closer to the Grenadiers market than the pickup trucks.

DAGZOOK wrote: I'm sure the boffins at INEOS have done thorough market research, but I think we can all unilaterally agree that the price point released thus far is a bit steep..

I think they're targeting the Jeep wranglers, Toyota land cruisers, 2020 defenders and Mercedes G-Wagon customers. But who knows, maybe they'll launch a bare bones stripped out commercial SWB version if they get enough interest. If that was the case, I personally don't think there's much out there that could compete with it. (Pickups are in a different class IMO).

To be fair. I don't think Ineos have released any prices. There is only speculation from motoring bodies and journos.

As for them targeting a Wrangler (which has always been a leisure vehicle not utility), the new Defender (which is a Discovery in drag) or a G-Wagen (which is just crazy money and never used these days as a utility vehicle). I'd have thought no. But I guess we will have to wait and see.

300bhpton wrote:

DAGZOOK wrote: I'm sure the boffins at INEOS have done thorough market research, but I think we can all unilaterally agree that the price point released thus far is a bit steep..

I think they're targeting the Jeep wranglers, Toyota land cruisers, 2020 defenders and Mercedes G-Wagon customers. But who knows, maybe they'll launch a bare bones stripped out commercial SWB version if they get enough interest. If that was the case, I personally don't think there's much out there that could compete with it. (Pickups are in a different class IMO).

To be fair. I don't think Ineos have released any prices. There is only speculation from motoring bodies and journos.

As for them targeting a Wrangler (which has always been a leisure vehicle not utility), the new Defender (which is a Discovery in drag) or a G-Wagen (which is just crazy money and never used these days as a utility vehicle). I'd have thought no. But I guess we will have to wait and see.

300, INEOS sent an email out to all 'subscribed' customers containing a video interview with the UK's marketing chief towards the end of last week. I subscribed a while back purely out of interest due to getting first dibs on the latest grenadier news and manufacturing updates. They gave indicative minimum price figures of the new grenadier, but alluded to the fact that this price could fluctuate based on model specifications/toys which are still being decided. So the previously mentioned prices could in reality increase even more so

The big problem for any new car company is reliability. Vehicles operate in a harsh environment, they have to work in hot, cold, wet, dry conditions, sometimes all in the same day, often with little maintenance.

Making something that works and keeps on working is very difficult for a new company with no track record, just look at Tesla.

Then they are entering a competitive market with some well established players, a market that might be gone in 2030 for petrol/diesel and 5 years latter for hybrids.

A lot of people miss the old Defender, trouble is they are probably already sorted with something else. After all if the Defender was still going to be a good seller today, why was it dropped?

Good job Sir Jim has deep pockets, he’s going to need it.