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BigJimnyMeet (North) 2024 (12 Jan 2024)


BigJimnyMeet 2024

14th July 2024
Parkwood Nr. Leeds

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Re:Ball or taper?.

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04 Sep 2020 08:54 #227707 by Roger Fairclough
My old SJ413 had a pair of taper roller bearings in each front hub yet the Jimny has a single bearing with two rows of ball, a system that I consider inferior. If you fit spacers or heavier wheel and tyre combinations, the newer bearing would appear to have a short life. Has anyone tried to combine the hub of the SJ with the axle of the jimny to get the benefits of taper roller bearings? If this is not practical, would someone give me the dimensions of the newer bearing and I will ask a friend - he has his own bearing company, if he can supply roller bearings to fit.

Roger
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04 Sep 2020 09:17 #227709 by Velocette
Replied by Velocette on topic Ball or taper?.
I fitted taper rollers to my 06 Jimny last year. The outer was in one part and the inner in two parts,,which is obvious when you see the assembly. Fit perfectly but remember not to over grease the bearing as I believe the vacuum system for the 4wd system "breathe " through it.
Spen Bearing on Parkwood Street in Keighley were the suppliers. 01535 606421
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04 Sep 2020 12:05 #227711 by Roger Fairclough
Replied by Roger Fairclough on topic Ball or taper?.
Cheers Velocette.

May I suggest you give us the low down on the fitting details such as preload and did you just rely on the tab to lock the retaining nut.

Roger
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04 Sep 2020 15:52 #227725 by Velocette
Replied by Velocette on topic Ball or taper?.
Fitting was quite straightforward. Knock the old outer race out of the hub, clean everything then press in the new outer. Grease and fit the inner taper roller followed by the first half of the inner race, then the oil seal. Slide the hub onto the axle then push the outer inner ? race onto the axle followed by the outer roller bearing. There is no adjustable pre-load as such as this is simply engineered in by the dimensions of the two inner races. Tighten the retaining nut to a sensible torque and lock the tab. I was told that this type of bearing was not fitted to many of the Jimny variants but it fit mine and worked well. Regarding pre-load, I did this on the wheel bearings of my 1954 Matchless which were very small taper rollers which required just enough pre-load to give 1/8" of wobble at the rim ! Everything I have described happened over a year ago so due allowance should be given for possessing the memory of a hen.
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04 Sep 2020 17:32 #227730 by Busta
Replied by Busta on topic Ball or taper?.
Were SJs not prone to the accelerated bearing wear associated with wheel spacers and driving in mud?

The Jimny and Samurai wheel bearings are interchangeable.
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04 Sep 2020 20:19 #227738 by Roger Fairclough
Replied by Roger Fairclough on topic Ball or taper?.
The SJ413 was a tin top and was a Suzuki import. Mine was an SJ413 softop and was imported by a few Suzuki dealers to convince Suzuki GB that a soft top was a good idea. It convinced Suzuki so they imported the Samurai ie their interpretation of the rag top 413. It was probably at this point that to keep costs down they used the cheap and nasty double ball front hub bearing. My tyres were from memory about 30" dia. and I had no problem with excessive bearing wear.

Roger
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04 Sep 2020 21:14 #227740 by Busta
Replied by Busta on topic Ball or taper?.
I've not had any problems with excessive bearing wear on Jimnys. I mean, I had one go on a 160,000 mile Jimny, but I don't think that's unreasonable. I've taken 2 other Jimny's past 100,000 miles on 28" tyres without replacing a wheel bearing. I can't say I've noticed any trend on this forum for them to be wearing out prematurely either.

I'd wager that most of the frequent replacements involve wheel spacers, pattern parts fitted with a hammer and a weekly cycle of mud immersion and pressure washing.
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04 Sep 2020 21:45 #227742 by Roger Fairclough
Replied by Roger Fairclough on topic Ball or taper?.
Busta, may I suggest you go back to the beginning of this string and reread my opening comments.

Roger
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04 Sep 2020 22:20 #227744 by Busta
Replied by Busta on topic Ball or taper?.
You made the premise that the ball bearings are inferior by design and have a shorter service life. I'm just pointing out that this isn't necessarily accurate. SJs also suffered from accelerated bearing wear in the same conditions. The primary cause of premature bearing failure is water ingress which is a sealing issue and has nothing to do with bearing type.

But as I said in my first reply, echoing Velocette's experience, the SJ bearings are a direct swap so there's nothing stopping you making the swap. Hopefully you'll be good enough to report back after 100,000 miles to let us know if it was worthwhile!
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05 Sep 2020 04:16 #227750 by Lambert
Replied by Lambert on topic Ball or taper?.
Another plus 100000 miles on the same factory wheel bearings here. And I am off tarmac for significant periods every day and do lots of towing and carrying too.

Temeraire (2018 quasar grey automatic)
One of the last 200ish of the gen3s, probably.
ADOS Attention Deficit Ooooh Shiny!
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05 Sep 2020 05:29 #227752 by CC Baxter
Replied by CC Baxter on topic Ball or taper?.
I remember taper rollers used in motorcycle steering heads (far superior in that particular application) more or less dissappeared in the late 80s. The consensus was (and some bulletins hinted) that because tapers need an early check at 500 miles it was hitting dealers at the so-called free service. Chris
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05 Sep 2020 08:44 #227754 by Roger Fairclough
Replied by Roger Fairclough on topic Ball or taper?.
P.W.R.Blake, M.A.(Cantab.), C.Eng.M.I.Mech.E. wrote "The cylindrical roller bearing has extra radial load carrying capacity, therefore longer life than a ball bearing of comparable size".
I started this string based on the proven premise that a taper roller bearing is, size for size, superior to a ball bearing. I had noted that there were a number of members on this forum who had stated that fitting wheel spacers, wider wheels or larger more aggressive tyres and using the motor in a more exuberant manner meant that they needed to replace their front wheel bearings rather more frequently than they thought reasonable. On my SJ413 the set up was 2 taper roller bearings per hub, assembled in the normal manner with a nut and lock nut to adjust the pre-load. Lubrication was by grease with a standard twin lipped oil seal. I drove that car on lanes the length and breadth of the UK from the most northerly tip of the Shetlands to deep into Cornwall. The car was used hard but not abused and I never destroyed a wheel bearing or had one damaged by water and yes I have my own pressure washer. I note that some of you have achieved high mileages on standard bearings but I also note that they appear to be on unmodified motors, which means that they are outside of the parameters I set.
My point still stands, a taper roller bearing is superior to a ball bearing, all other parameters being equal.
Now, having got that lot of my chest, I asked a perfectly reasonable question regarding using the hub from an SJ and grafting it onto a Jimny, or, can someone supply me with the dimensions of the ball race on the Jimny.
Thank you.

Roger
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