Re:GEN 4 Wobble

mlines wrote: How do balancing beads co-exist with TPMS sensors?

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i dont know due to not having them, but given that they sit at the extreme edges of the tyre, they shouldn't interfere? The dynabeads faq points to no issues... www.dynabeads.co.uk/dynabeads_4x4.php

mlines wrote: If there is a red dot (and a yellow one) the red dot should align with the dimple or dot on the rim and the yellow dot ignored

My car is about to arrive (today I saw it first time through the window in dealership showroom) and I noticed that despite the fact those tyres have both yellow and red dots, they are fitted with yellow dot aligned to valve and red dots ignored. (weight method)
I understand that uniformity method (aligning red dot with dimple on rim) produces possibly better results, but as a non-automotive person, I don't really know how serious this mistake is...

Is this issue significant enough to point it out once/before they officially give me the car? Or should I let it be and return only if I feel some wobble?
(we are talking about stock tyres on stock alloy wheels)

I've not seen any reports of people experiencing wobble or vibration with stock wheels and tyres. You'll only encounter problems with aftermarket wheels/tyres. I wouldn't worry about it. The set of stock SZ4 steels I have are a mixed bag of red/yellow alignment and it makes no noticeable difference.

vecernik87 wrote:

mlines wrote: If there is a red dot (and a yellow one) the red dot should align with the dimple or dot on the rim and the yellow dot ignored

My car is about to arrive (today I saw it first time through the window in dealership showroom) and I noticed that despite the fact those tyres have both yellow and red dots, they are fitted with yellow dot aligned to valve and red dots ignored. (weight method)
I understand that uniformity method (aligning red dot with dimple on rim) produces possibly better results, but as a non-automotive person, I don't really know how serious this mistake is...

Is this issue significant enough to point it out once/before they officially give me the car? Or should I let it be and return only if I feel some wobble?
(we are talking about stock tyres on stock alloy wheels)

Mine has alloy wheels, and the yellow dots line with the valves. I just assumed that as the alloys have to be machined, that they made them round enough at the factory, wheras the steel wheels are rolled and then welded so they are unlikely to be anywhere near round, and have the low point marked- on the old one it was a blue dot on the rim.

I can't see any uniformity marks on the alloys.

I could be wrong, but it is no more trouble to machine the wheel round than any other shape*- at least I would machine it round, it isn't exactly hard.....

*I'd say it was easier to make it round than any other shape given they have to machine the location bore, then all they need do is pick up on that and machine the rim concentric to it- as long as the casting is stress relieved before machining it will be spot on.

The dots have nothing to do with the wheels themselves .
They are only to do with the tyres . When the rubber is formed in the moulds they end up with a dead spot , then when stored another weighted area is formed .

Thank you Gadget, Facade and GeorgeC. This makes sense.
I will keep it in mind for later, when I buy offroad tyres and steel wheels.

SZ4 steel wheels, red dot on tyre aligned to blue dot on wheel, all 4 the same.

facade wrote: I could be wrong, but it is no more trouble to machine the wheel round than any other shape*- at least I would machine it round, it isn't exactly hard.....

The issue isn't the roundness, its the balance. They are 2 different things. Most balancing issues are caused by the tyres rather than the rims, as they are both further from the centre and of a much more complex shape/composition than the rim.

As to whether the Gen 4 will suffer wobble issues, I doubt the tiny changes made to the Gen 4 will have eradicated the issue. All live axle vehicles suffer from wobble to a greater or lesser extent.

Micheal wrote: yes they do fit like that but I found the travel on the jack insufficient to raise the wheel of the ground, necessitating a lot of faffing around with bits of wood and then found when the jack was sitting high enough the diagonal arm would foul part of the underbody. I just wondered if this was just me or if anyone has replaced the jack with something more purposeful that would effect a swift wheel change in an emergency?
Thanks

Unless they have changed the jack from the previous Jimnys which I doubt, It sounds like you are doing something wrong. The standard jack is sufficient to lift a tyre clear of the ground, even with much bigger tyres fitted. If you are trying to jack it up under the chassis rather than the jacking point on the radius arms you will definitely have height issues though.

Busta wrote:

facade wrote: I could be wrong, but it is no more trouble to machine the wheel round than any other shape*- at least I would machine it round, it isn't exactly hard.....

The issue isn't the roundness, its the balance. They are 2 different things. Most balancing issues are caused by the tyres rather than the rims, as they are both further from the centre and of a much more complex shape/composition than the rim.

As to whether the Gen 4 will suffer wobble issues, I doubt the tiny changes made to the Gen 4 will have eradicated the issue. All live axle vehicles suffer from wobble to a greater or lesser extent.

I'm going on what I've read- the blue dot on the steel rim marks the low point of radial runout of the rim, and goes to the red dot of the tyre- the point of maximum radial runout of the carcase, so overall gives the roundest tread profile, and therefore slightly less flexing of the walls to maintain the ride on a level road, I suppose if you had high pressure tyres with stiff sidewalls the car would nod less as it goes along.
Machining the alloy at manufacture could well make it near enough to round that there is no appreciable radial runout/runin, so they don't mark the rim.

In the absence of a rim mark, you default to the yellow mark- the lightest point of the tyre, and put it next to the valve- the heaviest point of the rim, so the wheel is nearer to static balance and they use less additional weight dynamically balancing it.

Does seem a bit "wet finger in the air" though, relying on an unknown amount of tyre runout to correct an unknown (but in spec.- honest ) amount of runin at the rim.