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Rear lockers on gen 4 ?

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25 Jul 2019 21:44 - 25 Jul 2019 21:58 #211473 by Andy2640
Hi guys,

Ive seen a gen 4 with lockers on, and it performed amazingly well.



I know very little about lockers, i get what they do, but have no idea about the following

1. How they would be engaged. Would you have a switch in cabin, or a manual knob on the rear wheels?

2. Are there any available for the gen 4 at this point that we know of.

3. How would they affect, and work along side the jimnys BLSD.

4. What do we think would be the complexity of fitting them, and expense of fitting them be.

I'm sure others have interest in this subject, but not heard much talked about it.

Hope someone can advise.

Thanks.

A wise man once said...... When we are Mean, Shout at People, Lose our Tempers, Swear, and generally act like Tool Bags, Never forget ..... We are all Cavemen in Suits, Uniforms and/or Overalls ..... Living in Semi-Concrete Jungles. Andy - 2019 AD.
Last edit: 25 Jul 2019 21:58 by Andy2640.

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26 Jul 2019 06:22 #211479 by Lambert
Replied by Lambert on topic Rear lockers on gen 4 ?
There's a few basic types.

Air locking. These are what people traditionally think of, they are manually controlled by the driver via a switch in the car. They are a normal open diff when you don't need them and they physically lock both wheels together when you do need them. They require a source of compressed air to work which makes them quite expensive to buy, this air also needs to be connected to the diff making them more involved to fit. They are very good though.

Mechanical unlocking. This type remain locked up all the time but when cornering on tarmac use some kind of proprietary system of cams or pawls to allow for the different rotation of the wheels. They are loud in operation as the tyres force the diff to unlock which also causes additional wear and tear. They are however fit and forget and therefore less expensive and simpler to install.

Mechanical slipping. There's two main types clutch and gear. Both force some percentage of drive to each wheel but never actually lock fully. Helical gear ones are my personal favourite. They are both fit and forget and operate silently and don't cause too much additional wear but they do require more skill to get the best out of off road.

I don't know how many are available for the gen4 but they won't be too hard to to reengineer if there are some minor changes between the gens. Thing is though it is quite a skill to set up a new diff properly which generally makes it easier to pay someone else to do it unless you're really quite competent.

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26 Jul 2019 06:36 #211480 by Lambert
Replied by Lambert on topic Rear lockers on gen 4 ?
Oh and as for the ghost locker, if you have a real locker the computer won't see a problem on the back axle as both wheels are turning at the same speed as one of the fronts so all it will do is fiddle brake the front axle to keep those turning equally.

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26 Jul 2019 06:40 #211481 by zukebob
Replied by zukebob on topic Rear lockers on gen 4 ?
I'm preparing to purchase an e-locker in a couple of weeks. There is some info on this forum thread . The last post links to a Japanese website doing an installation and some videos of use but they are Chinese made lockers. They do have one for a JB74. Can't answer the availability question concerning air lockers.

I started out with nothing & still have most of it left
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27 Jul 2019 06:15 #211517 by Lambert
Replied by Lambert on topic Rear lockers on gen 4 ?

Lambert wrote: Oh and as for the ghost locker, if you have a real locker the computer won't see a problem on the back axle as both wheels are turning at the same speed as one of the fronts so all it will do is fiddle brake the front axle to keep those turning equally.


Actually that is not quite strictly true. Because of the Jimny not having a central diff in the transfer box both front and rear prop shafts are going to turn. Therefore so is one wheel on each axle. Locking the rear diff means both rear wheels are turning regardless of if they have traction. At the front axle it not being locked if only one side has traction the opposite side will be spinning at twice the speed of the rear wheels so the ghost locker is then going to brake that spinning wheel and force drive across the axle to the none spinning wheel until it sees all 4 wheels reaching the same speed. At this point you're either under way again or looking for a recovery option.

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27 Jul 2019 07:27 #211518 by sniper
Replied by sniper on topic Rear lockers on gen 4 ?
The Quaife ATB works in unison with electronic ABS systems.......

On paper (never seen it personally) the torque biasing of the ATB will move drive from the slipping wheel to the gripping wheel and the ABS will lock a slipping wheel, giving grip to any wheel with grip. It should work pretty seamlessly.

Have a look at reviews of the Quaife ATB when fitted to cars with an ABS controlled traction system.

I run the Quaife unit in a gen3 and it gives so much more than just an aid off road..... it completely alters the drive of the car and gives you "Lift off oversteer" as a chassis characteristic. Making the car much more fun to drive quickly and improving handling beyond expectations.....

It has been a massive improvement in general terms..... just apply a little throttle as you enter a corner and so long as power is fed in, you're line stays tight.

My jimny can out drive most cars on tight and twisty B roads, they shoot right past me on the straights but I crawl all over them in the twisty bits... and you wouldn't think a Jimny would do it..... watching the faces of RangeRover drivers as my 3k banger goes past is never going to stop being funny...

sniper
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27 Jul 2019 08:08 #211519 by Lambert
Replied by Lambert on topic Rear lockers on gen 4 ?
This is why I want one, in combination with my other track modifications it will make Dreadnaught a real weapon of mass humiliation on most twisty circuits.

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27 Jul 2019 09:45 #211520 by sniper
Replied by sniper on topic Rear lockers on gen 4 ?


From what I saw in the Lakes with a new one, it would be near perfect with the ATB..... said so at the time, the ABS thingy is very good.
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27 Jul 2019 10:25 #211521 by Andy2640
Replied by Andy2640 on topic Rear lockers on gen 4 ?
So are we saying that this atb diff would be ideal for the gen 4?

A wise man once said...... When we are Mean, Shout at People, Lose our Tempers, Swear, and generally act like Tool Bags, Never forget ..... We are all Cavemen in Suits, Uniforms and/or Overalls ..... Living in Semi-Concrete Jungles. Andy - 2019 AD.

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27 Jul 2019 10:53 - 27 Jul 2019 10:55 #211523 by Andy2640
Replied by Andy2640 on topic Rear lockers on gen 4 ?

sniper wrote: The Quaife ATB works in unison with electronic ABS systems.......

On paper (never seen it personally) the torque biasing of the ATB will move drive from the slipping wheel to the gripping wheel and the ABS will lock a slipping wheel, giving grip to any wheel with grip. It should work pretty seamlessly.

Have a look at reviews of the Quaife ATB when fitted to cars with an ABS controlled traction system.

I run the Quaife unit in a gen3 and it gives so much more than just an aid off road..... it completely alters the drive of the car and gives you "Lift off oversteer" as a chassis characteristic. Making the car much more fun to drive quickly and improving handling beyond expectations.....

It has been a massive improvement in general terms..... just apply a little throttle as you enter a corner and so long as power is fed in, you're line stays tight.

My jimny can out drive most cars on tight and twisty B roads, they shoot right past me on the straights but I crawl all over them in the twisty bits... and you wouldn't think a Jimny would do it..... watching the faces of RangeRover drivers as my 3k banger goes past is never going to stop being funny...

sniper


Im just trying to digest what this means.

So what is the difference if the atb quaiff sends power and torque to the wheel with traction, and limits torque to the spinning "non traction" wheel. Isnt this what the stock jims BLSD does anyway?

Sorry, im just trying to get this firm in my noggin.

A wise man once said...... When we are Mean, Shout at People, Lose our Tempers, Swear, and generally act like Tool Bags, Never forget ..... We are all Cavemen in Suits, Uniforms and/or Overalls ..... Living in Semi-Concrete Jungles. Andy - 2019 AD.
Last edit: 27 Jul 2019 10:55 by Andy2640.

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27 Jul 2019 11:10 - 27 Jul 2019 11:28 #211525 by AlexK
Replied by AlexK on topic Rear lockers on gen 4 ?
In theory, the BLSD should need to provide less intervention. To the BLSD, the mechanical locker just makes it look like the wheels have more traction.

Edited to add: Remember, Suzuki offers a geared locker so this combo is supported. In the accessory brochure, it says this:

"On slippery road surfaces, the loss of driving due to tire slippage is reduced, and the driving power is efficiently transmitted to support stable driving in straight lines and corners. When the brake LSD is activated, the driving force to the grounded tire is increased to support the escape performance. In addition, on curves of pavements, etc., differential differential gears maintain their original smooth running."

Yours for 111,510 yen (31,590 of which is installation) - roughly £830.

Personally, if I was cracking open the diffs to add lockers I'd be looking to re-gear at the same time, but none of the companies I'm familiar with offer R&P sets that'll fit a Jimny.
Last edit: 27 Jul 2019 11:28 by AlexK.
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27 Jul 2019 11:51 - 27 Jul 2019 11:54 #211526 by Andy2640
Replied by Andy2640 on topic Rear lockers on gen 4 ?
Just an edit, and dropping in a Simple explanation of different diffs, especially for any Noobs lurking in the background, I amongst them :woohoo:

The jimny's BLSD system is described at 3.48 mins.






I'm going to read your reply above now Alex. Thank you

A wise man once said...... When we are Mean, Shout at People, Lose our Tempers, Swear, and generally act like Tool Bags, Never forget ..... We are all Cavemen in Suits, Uniforms and/or Overalls ..... Living in Semi-Concrete Jungles. Andy - 2019 AD.
Last edit: 27 Jul 2019 11:54 by Andy2640.

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