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THE DEATH WOBBLE THREAD

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19 Nov 2013 20:08 - 16 May 2016 08:06 #92162 by kirkynut
kirkynut created the topic: THE DEATH WOBBLE THREAD
This valuable topic has now been transferred to the WIKI part of this website. See www.bigjimny.com/mediawiki/index.php/Death_Wobble

You can update the WIKI with any additional information. Thanks to all who contributed. (Martin)




Right then! Not a week goes past without one or more posts asking about the famous Jimny Death Wobble, it’s causes the fixes.

So I have created what I think is as definitive list of causes and fixes that I can think of and roughly in the order of how likely they are the cause. However, it could be that you have more than one cause!

What is it though? Death Wobble is where the steering wheel shakes, usually about 45 MPH. It ranges from a slight shake to a violent steering wheel shake that also can be felt through the whole truck, forcing you to slow down or stop.

With big aggressive mud terrain tyres a little steering wheel shake may have to be lived with.

King Pin Bearings

For some reason, the Jimny King Pin Bearings don’t last as long as we would like them to and they are the main reported cause of Death Wobble on this forum.

The pre-load on the bearings is set from the factory and if replaced properly with all the correct torque settings etc, in theory the pre-load should be right and there should be no Death Wobble after replacement, if they were the cause or only cause of it.

I say in theory as it appears that the theory can take a bit of a battering on this occasion and Suzuki brought out some shims to add to the King Pin in an effort to increase the pre-load on the bearing. Martin has replicated these shims and sells them in the Big Jimny Shop: bigjimny.com/store/index.php?_a=product&product_id=8

The bearing manufacturer for Suzuki was/still is KOYO. If you buy your King Pin Bearings from the Bigjimny Shop you will at the time of writing get KOYO’s, so you know they are the correct spec. They will also be at probably the best price you can get them at: bigjimny.com/store/index.php?_a=product&product_id=6

There is a guide on how to replace your King Pin Bearings on the main Big Jimny website: www.bigjimny.com/images/documents/Changi...KingPin_Bearings.pdf

If you have come from SJ ownership, or have worked on an SJ, note that the shims go on the pin it’s self and not around it on the top. On the SJ you add shims to relieve pressure on the bearings, on the Jimny you add them to add pressure to the bearings.

You can check for wear in the King Pin bearings by jacking the car up, putting an axle stand under the axle on the side you are working on and trying to move the wheel with a hand at 12 o’clock and a hand at 6 o’clock. If you feel any play you can help confirm its the Kingpin Bearings by getting an assistant to press the brakes whilst you are doing it, if the play can still be felt then its the Kingpin bearings, if it disappears then look at the wheel bearings.

Transmission oil on your swivels will show they are likely to have failed and have caused the axle tube oil seal to have failed by the excess movement. An oil seal comes with the bearings when bought from the Big Jimny Shop – replace it.

Track Rod Ends / Steering Rod Ends

Worn Track Rod or Steering Rod Ends will have slop in them and cause Death Wobble.

There is a guide on the main Big Jimny website on how to change them: www.bigjimny.com/images/documents/changing_a_tie-rod_end.pdf

You can buy new ones from the Big Jimny Shop: bigjimny.com/store/index.php?_a=product&product_id=128

You need one standard thread and one reverse thread per rod – so 2 of each for the whole car.

Panhard Rod Bushes

These can wear and as they are there to restrict axle movement, any extra movement can translate to Death Wobble.

You can buy replacement nylon bushes from the Big Jimny Shop : bigjimny.com/store/index.php?_a=product&product_id=28

Front Wheel Bearings

My experience with front wheel bearings on Jimny’s is that they are quite long lasting, which is handy as they are not cheap but can be bought cheapest on the Big Jimny Shop: bigjimny.com/store/index.php?_a=product&product_id=1

There is a guide on how to change them on the main Big Jimny Website: www.bigjimny.com/images/documents/Changi...t_Wheel_Bearings.pdf

You can buy the tool to remove them from the Big Jimny Shop too: bigjimny.com/store/index.php?_a=product&product_id=4

Radius Arm / Trailing Arm Bushes

Mainly the front arm bushes are a contributor / cause of Death Wobble but the rears could sent movement through the car and worn bushes are no good to man nor beast and may be an MOT failure if bad enough. The most common bush to give problems is the one on the chassis end of the front arms.

There is a guide on how to change them on the main Big Jimny website : www.bigjimny.com/images/documents/Guide_..._Arms_and_Bushes.pdf

You can buy the original rubber ones from Suzuki, as per the part numbers in the guide, or from other suppliers. ADL BLUEPRINT do them for much less but in my experience they do not last as long.

Alternatively, slightly more expensive in some cases but easier to fit are nylon ones. The best come from Super Pro and can be bought from a number of places – Off Road Armoury, Bits4Vits, Jimnybits, KAP Suzuki. Nylon ones sometimes do not have slots cut in them that the original Suzuki ones have, these can mean a firmer ride on the road.

Cleanliness

This is something that came up in the summer of 2013 and was brought to our attention by Rockwatt who solved Death Wobble cases by a simple front axle re-build using new components when worn but in all cases cleanliness.

By this we mean making sure there is no rust on the hub behind the brake disc for the disc to sit on so that it and therefore the wheel sits square on the hub.

So get your wire brush out!

This cleanliness extends to the sealant used in rebuilding the hub. Do not use too much on the Kingpins themselves as this creates a layer when prevents the Kingpin from seating correctly. Also ensure that the Kingpin itself is rust free.

Swivel Seal

Often thought of by "Landrover" experts to be a key problem, these are less of an issue on Jimny's. The seal on a Landrover is key to keeping the oil in the joint, but as a Jimnys joint is "dry" they act more as a dust shield. However they also serve as a "damper" for the steering so it may be worth changing them if you are getting desperate.


Wheel Balancing

Seems obvious but you did get them balanced did you?. If you have chunky off-road tyres then balancing beads can help. If you have the 3-spoke "O2" wheels then thse can give issues, try taking these wheels off and rotating them around one stud position.

There are other suppliers of many of these parts – I have mentioned the BigJimny Shop a fair amount above and I support it as Martin runs this forum for us all and it has to be paid for somehow, along with his time in keeping it running.

See also though, in no particular order:

www.bits4vits.co.uk/store/index.php
www.jimnybits.co.uk/shop/
www.kapsuzuki4x4.co.uk/
www.offroad-armory.com/store/

I have bought from them all and they are all great to deal with.

One other thing you can do to help it is adding a Steering Damper - available from most of the aforementioned suppliers. I think this is treating the symptom and not the cause but if it helps make your Jimny more pleasurable to drive, so be it.

Feel free to add to this or correct me if you think I have gone wrong – I have not created this thinking I am the be all and end all in Jimny knowledge – just as an effort to help all the Newbies that join our ranks and all come across the same issue and ask the same questions.

Perhaps if someone asks a question that is answered above, rather than being told to use the search button, they could politely be directed to this.

Kirkynut

The underdog often starts the fight, and occasionally the upper dog deserves to win - Edgar Watson Howe.

My Jimny Thread Here: www.bigjimny.com/index.php/forum?view=to...tid=8&id=14127#14127
Last Edit: 16 May 2016 08:06 by mlines.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Tadpole, GuardianAngel, JuanGuillie, HUN
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19 Nov 2013 20:14 #92166 by bluejimny
bluejimny replied the topic: THE DEATH WOBBLE THREAD
very good, can you make it a sticky?
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19 Nov 2013 20:20 #92169 by MWells
MWells replied the topic: THE DEATH WOBBLE THREAD
What about wheel balance?

Jimnyless
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19 Nov 2013 20:51 #92186 by Tadpole
Tadpole replied the topic: THE DEATH WOBBLE THREAD

MWells wrote: What about wheel balance?

I agree this although a common fault on motors it should be your first check ;)

I've just found what I was looking for, it was where I left it ...
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19 Nov 2013 20:53 - 19 Nov 2013 20:54 #92187 by kirkynut
kirkynut replied the topic: THE DEATH WOBBLE THREAD

MWells wrote: What about wheel balance?


Oh yes - well done - there was always going to be something I'd miss- added now!

I've also added a description of what Death Wobble actually is.

Any other additions, please pipe up. I can't think of everything and like I say - I'm no expert in wobble, well not Death Wobble anyway!

Kirkynut

The underdog often starts the fight, and occasionally the upper dog deserves to win - Edgar Watson Howe.

My Jimny Thread Here: www.bigjimny.com/index.php/forum?view=to...tid=8&id=14127#14127
Last Edit: 19 Nov 2013 20:54 by kirkynut.
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20 Nov 2013 06:04 #92234 by Lambert
Lambert replied the topic: THE DEATH WOBBLE THREAD
Another thing is warped discs. I know it is more obvious when braking but it has the same symptoms.

It's not a Jimny. It's my Jimny

Mooo said Ermintrude (black)
Boing said Zebedee (blue)
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20 Nov 2013 08:28 #92247 by jimnyturbo
jimnyturbo replied the topic: THE DEATH WOBBLE THREAD
never had a problem till i stuck my original alloys back on with knobbly tyres, and now depending on the road surface i get the death wobble around 45mph.. but if i keep below this, or go to 55mph it seems to stop, really strange..
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20 Nov 2013 08:41 #92250 by Fung
Fung replied the topic: Re:THE DEATH WOBBLE THREAD
Real simple but make sure your wheel nuts are all the correct way round. Found this out working in the dark.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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20 Nov 2013 12:15 #92284 by Halford
Halford replied the topic: THE DEATH WOBBLE THREAD
great job kirkynut ;)

now if you can hurry up and do the stickies for tow-bars, tyres, CBs etc we'll be sorted :whistle:

Oh and may as well remove the search function as it doesn't appear to be working :laugh:
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20 Nov 2013 19:49 #92364 by kirkynut
kirkynut replied the topic: THE DEATH WOBBLE THREAD

Halford wrote: great job kirkynut ;)

now if you can hurry up and do the stickies for tow-bars, tyres, CBs etc we'll be sorted :whistle:

Oh and may as well remove the search function as it doesn't appear to be working :laugh:


You cheeky so and so!!!

The search function on the forum has never been the best but I find if you Google any problem to do with a Jimny, it will always take you back to BigJimny anyway! Occasionally there are a few relevant posts on other general Suzuki forums but as far as Jimny's are concerned, this is the International Oracle!

Kirkynut

The underdog often starts the fight, and occasionally the upper dog deserves to win - Edgar Watson Howe.

My Jimny Thread Here: www.bigjimny.com/index.php/forum?view=to...tid=8&id=14127#14127
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20 Nov 2013 22:28 #92407 by mc_nebula
mc_nebula replied the topic: THE DEATH WOBBLE THREAD

kirkynut wrote: Track Rod Ends / Steering Rod Ends

Worn Track Rod or Steering Rod Ends will have slop in them and cause Death Wobble.

There is a guide on the main Big Jimny website on how to change them: www.bigjimny.com/images/documents/changing_a_tie-rod_end.pdf

You can buy new ones from the Big Jimny Shop: bigjimny.com/store/index.php?_a=product&product_id=128

You need one standard thread and one reverse thread per rod – so 2 of each for the whole car.

Panhard Rod Bushes

These can wear and as they are there to restrict axle movement, any extra movement can translate to Death Wobble.

You can buy replacement nylon bushes from the Big Jimny Shop : bigjimny.com/store/index.php?_a=product&product_id=28



May I comment that the ORA Panhard rods appear to me to be a cause of wheel wobble?
I lifted my truck 3 inches and corrected it with Rays arms and ORA Panhards. The ORA Panhards have Rose joints on the ends, not bushes. I would NOT recommend these rods to anyone. The interior of the rose joint is slightly larger than the bolt it slides over, this gives play in the joint. It's only around 0.5mm each end (perhaps less even) but it's made my truck feel like it wanders along the road, I've developed a wobble at 35-45 mph and my axles move under the car when I'm off-roading. If I transfer from a left-facing incline, to a right-facing incline (and vice-versa), the panhard joints "clunk" across taking up the slack in the joint from each direction. The same happens if I do a series of "s" bends on the roads. I'm 100% certain that this play is due to the bolt sitting in the rose joint, rather than a "softer" bushing.

Has anyone else had a similar issue, or anything to add?

How might I look for wear in the track rod/steering rod ends?

Cheers guys!
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20 Nov 2013 22:46 #92408 by kirkynut
kirkynut replied the topic: THE DEATH WOBBLE THREAD

mc_nebula wrote:

kirkynut wrote: Track Rod Ends / Steering Rod Ends

Worn Track Rod or Steering Rod Ends will have slop in them and cause Death Wobble.

There is a guide on the main Big Jimny website on how to change them: www.bigjimny.com/images/documents/changing_a_tie-rod_end.pdf

You can buy new ones from the Big Jimny Shop: bigjimny.com/store/index.php?_a=product&product_id=128

You need one standard thread and one reverse thread per rod – so 2 of each for the whole car.

Panhard Rod Bushes

These can wear and as they are there to restrict axle movement, any extra movement can translate to Death Wobble.

You can buy replacement nylon bushes from the Big Jimny Shop : bigjimny.com/store/index.php?_a=product&product_id=28



May I comment that the ORA Panhard rods appear to me to be a cause of wheel wobble?
I lifted my truck 3 inches and corrected it with Rays arms and ORA Panhards. The ORA Panhards have Rose joints on the ends, not bushes. I would NOT recommend these rods to anyone. The interior of the rose joint is slightly larger than the bolt it slides over, this gives play in the joint. It's only around 0.5mm each end (perhaps less even) but it's made my truck feel like it wanders along the road, I've developed a wobble at 35-45 mph and my axles move under the car when I'm off-roading. If I transfer from a left-facing incline, to a right-facing incline (and vice-versa), the panhard joints "clunk" across taking up the slack in the joint from each direction. The same happens if I do a series of "s" bends on the roads. I'm 100% certain that this play is due to the bolt sitting in the rose joint, rather than a "softer" bushing.

Has anyone else had a similar issue, or anything to add?

How might I look for wear in the track rod/steering rod ends?

Cheers guys!


Perhaps you've not done the panhard rod bolts up tight enough?

Kirkynut

The underdog often starts the fight, and occasionally the upper dog deserves to win - Edgar Watson Howe.

My Jimny Thread Here: www.bigjimny.com/index.php/forum?view=to...tid=8&id=14127#14127
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