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Gen 4 SZ5 Alloy wheels and 215/75/15 Toya Tyres - Balancing proving challenging

  • Andy2640
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07 Sep 2019 13:08 #213255 by Andy2640

wjamieson wrote: Toyo Open Country A/T Plus Tyre


Thats what i have fitted. I had zero issues. Mhhhhh.

A wise man once said...... When we are Mean, Shout at People, Lose our Tempers, Swear, and generally act like Tool Bags, Never forget ..... We are all Cavemen in Suits, Uniforms and/or Overalls ..... Living in Semi-Concrete Jungles. Andy - 2019 AD.

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07 Sep 2019 13:16 #213258 by wjamieson
Thanks for all the comments. Looks like I need to rotate the tyres on the wheels so the dot aligns with the valves which looks like it should make it easier. Cheers all.

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08 Sep 2019 10:48 #213282 by Bob1050
I feel your pain - having personally experienced similar issues with another brand of 4X4.

Tyre fitters and tyre depots offer little consistency in training of staff, approach to the job or equipment used. Eventually I learned that you shouldn't bother with the type of tyre depot that specialises in replacing budget tyres on 10-year old Ford Fiestas. If you go to a 'commercial vehicle' tyre fitter you are more likely to experience vastly better levels of expertise and experience. For example, the 'cones' used to centre a wheel on the balancing machine are rather expensive - so if the tyre depot rarely does 4X4 tyres - they won't have the special 'Ford Transit' sized cone that is essential for doing the job effectively. Also if the 17 year old 'tyre fitter' was recruited last week from a local Pizza shop - you are unlikely to experience satisfaction with your wheels and tyres. Top tip - Find a local specialist and don't waste your time and money. I use a truck tyre depot, who also does my tractor tyres and the chap that does the job has been on the tools since Adam was a boy.

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08 Sep 2019 18:56 #213295 by saxj
I have had fun balancing tyres on the Gen 4 too.

1.Find someone that knows what they are doing.
2. Cones don't work on the Gen 4 mags, they must be PCD balanced.
3. Check the roundness of the tyre. I fitted Grabber X3, the rep replaced 4 out of the 5, and one of those needs replacing too.

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08 Sep 2019 21:32 #213304 by Bob1050

saxj wrote: I have had fun balancing tyres on the Gen 4 too.

1.Find someone that knows what they are doing.
2. Cones don't work on the Gen 4 mags, they must be PCD balanced.
3. Check the roundness of the tyre. I fitted Grabber X3, the rep replaced 4 out of the 5, and one of those needs replacing too.


Tell us more about PCD balancing as opposed to just "Cones don't work on Gen 4 mags". Every day is a school day and I've had several disappointments at tyre depots over the years.

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08 Sep 2019 21:38 - 08 Sep 2019 21:40 #213306 by S200KYS
I've had the same problem on "old" Jimnys...

Ask the tyre place(s) to balance hub-centric and not stud-centric as saxj says

Wandered off for a bit... ;)
Last edit: 08 Sep 2019 21:40 by S200KYS.

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09 Sep 2019 05:44 - 09 Sep 2019 05:45 #213316 by facade

Bob1050 wrote: Tell us more about PCD balancing as opposed to just "Cones don't work on Gen 4 mags". Every day is a school day and I've had several disappointments at tyre depots over the years.



The wheel has to be mounted to the machine so that the centre of the wheel is in the same place as it is on the car.

Most "modern" cars have a turned metal ring on the hub, that locates the wheel centrally using the machined centre hole. (This corrodes instantly, and you can't get the wheel off) The nuts are flat or reduced diameter at the bottom, and rattle round in the holes, as they are just to keep the wheel on the hub.

The jimny has tapered wheelnuts, and it is the centralising action of the nuts in the tapered holes that both holds the wheel on, and keeps it central to the hub. (Now the centre of the hub just rattles round in the big central hole of the wheel)

If you balance it dynamically, using the hole, by poking a tapered cone through it, there is no guarantee that the wheel is running true, and when it goes on the hub, the dynamic balance will be miles out.

So the fitter has to root in the box by the balancer to find the mounting flange, and swap it over with the cone and then bolt the wheel on properly, which takes ages, so they don't bother.

A commercial vehicle place always uses the flange as truck wheels don't have a centre hole.

If it suddenly breaks, go back to the last thing that you did before it broke and start looking there :)
Last edit: 09 Sep 2019 05:45 by facade.

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09 Sep 2019 05:51 #213318 by saxj

Bob1050 wrote:

saxj wrote: I have had fun balancing tyres on the Gen 4 too.

1.Find someone that knows what they are doing.
2. Cones don't work on the Gen 4 mags, they must be PCD balanced.
3. Check the roundness of the tyre. I fitted Grabber X3, the rep replaced 4 out of the 5, and one of those needs replacing too.


Tell us more about PCD balancing as opposed to just "Cones don't work on Gen 4 mags". Every day is a school day and I've had several disappointments at tyre depots over the years.


The mags on both the 3rd and 4th gen Jimny's are cast, so the surface is irregular, which protrudes above the machined centre of the wheel. When using a cone it rests on this irregular surface causing the tyre not to balance properly. PCD (pitch circle diameter) balancing is done using the stud holes.

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11 Sep 2019 05:31 #213406 by kirkynut
The alloys may well be cast but the important mounting surfaces are machined, so they're even.

I'm a user of balancing beads but with those tyres, on that car you should not be having these issues. Perhaps balancing beads are your easy solution though.

Kirkynut

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14 Sep 2019 22:16 #213530 by GeordieJimny
Same car, same tires and no balancing issues. Doesn’t help but at least you know they not messed up in general (zero technical knowledge). Hope you get it sorted.

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15 Sep 2019 05:05 #213533 by Max Headroom
Kirkynut

sorry to hijack this thread momentarily, I may have asked this before (sorry grey cells are not what they were) have you had any issues with the balancing-beads at low speeds?
...or put another way, at what speed do they become effective? Or is it something that you don't really notice?
I'm considering balancing beads in my prewar car( lumps of weights added to wire wheels just looks very ugly)


IF IT AINT BROKE, KEEP FIXING IT UNTIL IT IS

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15 Sep 2019 05:53 #213534 by Lambert
I have never used beads but most harmonics from out of balance wheels are only felt above 35 to 40 mph by which point the centrifugal effect on the beads will have them firmly in place. Below those sorts of speeds the inertia of the rest of the car masks the balance of the wheel, unless something is very bent.

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