×
. . (01 Nov 2019)
× A place for more technical discussions. Please make sure you post in the correct section on the site, this way it keeps the site tidy AND ensures you get a more relevant answer.

Gen 4 SZ5 Alloy wheels and 215/75/15 Toya Tyres - Balancing proving challenging

More
06 Sep 2019 15:55 #213214 by wjamieson
Anybody had problems balancing their new tyres? I've purchased 215/75/15 Toya's and at about 65mph get some vibration. When the tyres were fitted they indicated some challenges mounting the wheel to the balancing machine but advised that it was all fine. I did not take my car back to the original installer as it was not particularly convenient so stumbled across a local mobile fitter. He too had a problem mounting the wheel but said it was ok and balanced one wheel, the spare wheel. He was very much "Chasing the weight" and took about 5 goes and resulted in about 15 stick on weights being applied. At the end of this it was reporting 0 5 so ok but was concerned about the amount of weights and how difficult it was. So opted not to do anymore.
Decided to take my car to a trusted mechanic who has done work for me before after doubting the competence of the mobile fitter.

However same problem. Mounting the wheel was challenging and he too was "chasing the weight". What appeared to be the biggest problem was that the stick on weights on the outside of the wheel could not be applied far enough out. For testing purposes he stuck weights on the outside of the wheel and was able to balance ok but trying to stick weights in the inside of the wheel so not visible when mounted was very difficult.

So I think I did a disservice to the mobile fitter and have come to the conclusion given the wheels have a large offset this makes applying the weights to the correct part of the wheel difficult. Of course could use old fashioned weights fitted on the outside of the tyre but not keen as it would damage the alloys and encourage corrosion.

Anyone else had similar issues?

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Lambert
  • Lambert's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Moderator
  • Moderator
    Registered
  • The quickest Jimny in Harrogate...(that I own)
More
06 Sep 2019 16:01 #213215 by Lambert
Did they use the bolt holes to mount the wheel to the machine ot the centre bore with those cones? The wheels are bolt centric so the cone thing gets unrepeatable results.

Dreadnaught (black 2011)

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
06 Sep 2019 16:06 #213216 by wjamieson
Tried both. Landed on having the wheel mounted direct to the machine. a mounting bracket/tool which had the correct hole spacing was then fitted to line up the wheel with the locking tool then fitted. Not sure about correct names. But he also tried the cone as well and believed best results was with the alternate option.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Riccy
  • Riccy's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Site Sponsor
  • Site Sponsor
    Registered
  • J999 MNY Bashing around Carlisle
More
06 Sep 2019 16:42 #213219 by Riccy
Balance beads. The 100 bag should be about right, but check the chart on this link...

www.devon4x4.com/wheels-tyres-and-access.../tyre-balancing.html

Its a bag that gets put inside the tyre with small plastic beads in to a certain weight. Fit tyre as normal but dont balance. Instead take it for a drive. The bag will burst after a short drive and the beads are free to spread around and balance the tyre. You get a very quiet noise when moving really slowly from the beads moving about, they then spread out once up to speed.

FOR SALE: YR57 NYS M16 VVT
R7me gbox & 5.16 Rocklobster, 33" Toyo MT, 2x ARB Lockd diffs, 7" lift, etc, etc

J999 MNY, ULYSSES M18 VVT
Pickup/tipper, R7me gbox & 4.3 Rocklobster, 31" Toyo MT, 2x ARB Locker diffs, 4" lift, Recaro's, Caged, etc

www.youtube.com/user/riclemus

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Andy2640
  • Andy2640's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Platinum Boarder
    Registered
  • Its better to have tried and failed.
More
06 Sep 2019 20:21 #213231 by Andy2640

wjamieson wrote: Anybody had problems balancing their new tyres? I've purchased 215/75/15 Toya's and at about 65mph get some vibration. When the tyres were fitted they indicated some challenges mounting the wheel to the balancing machine but advised that it was all fine. I did not take my car back to the original installer as it was not particularly convenient so stumbled across a local mobile fitter. He too had a problem mounting the wheel but said it was ok and balanced one wheel, the spare wheel. He was very much "Chasing the weight" and took about 5 goes and resulted in about 15 stick on weights being applied. At the end of this it was reporting 0 5 so ok but was concerned about the amount of weights and how difficult it was. So opted not to do anymore.
Decided to take my car to a trusted mechanic who has done work for me before after doubting the competence of the mobile fitter.

However same problem. Mounting the wheel was challenging and he too was "chasing the weight". What appeared to be the biggest problem was that the stick on weights on the outside of the wheel could not be applied far enough out. For testing purposes he stuck weights on the outside of the wheel and was able to balance ok but trying to stick weights in the inside of the wheel so not visible when mounted was very difficult.

So I think I did a disservice to the mobile fitter and have come to the conclusion given the wheels have a large offset this makes applying the weights to the correct part of the wheel difficult. Of course could use old fashioned weights fitted on the outside of the tyre but not keen as it would damage the alloys and encourage corrosion.

Anyone else had similar issues?



Which toyo's did you go for bud?

A wise man once said...... When we are Mean, Shout at People, Lose our Tempers, Swear, and generally act like Tool Bags, Never forget ..... We are all Cavemen in Suits, Uniforms and/or Overalls ..... Living in Semi-Concrete Jungles. Andy - 2019 AD.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
06 Sep 2019 21:11 #213234 by wjamieson

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
06 Sep 2019 21:47 #213236 by yakuza
Sounds like a typical problem with people less experienced with heavy tires on light weight rims. Also some less equipped garages do not have the correct size cone for the large suzuki centering hole.
Often one must loosen the tire on the rim and turn it 90 or 180 degrees on the rim to achieve lesser need for balancing weights. Also if the design of the rims and the offset makes it difficult to avoid balancing weights to the outer edge, then I think you may have to accept them.. All my large tires have them.
Seems better to use steel wheels on larger rubbers like 31" but I have had that and 325 60 15 as well all balanced on alloy wheels for my SJ.

2005 Jimny M16A VVT, 235 BFG MT, 2" Trailmaster, 17%/87% high/low gears.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Lambert
  • Lambert's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Moderator
  • Moderator
    Registered
  • The quickest Jimny in Harrogate...(that I own)
More
07 Sep 2019 05:24 #213242 by Lambert
Another thing that is probably of little use now the tyres are fitted is that all new tyres will have a small yellow dot somewhere on the sidewall. This is a marker of the lightest part of the tyre and allows the tyre to be fitted with this mark against the valve on the rim, offsetting the weight and making the assembly easier to balance. It's why brand new cars have hardly any balance weights from the factory. It seems that most tyre fitters either don't know or don't care about this even if it would actually save them time and money.

Dreadnaught (black 2011)

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
07 Sep 2019 07:07 #213243 by stiffsteve204me

Lambert wrote: Another thing that is probably of little use now the tyres are fitted is that all new tyres will have a small yellow dot somewhere on the sidewall. This is a marker of the lightest part of the tyre and allows the tyre to be fitted with this mark against the valve on the rim, offsetting the weight and making the assembly easier to balance. It's why brand new cars have hardly any balance weights from the factory. It seems that most tyre fitters either don't know or don't care about this even if it would actually save them time and money.


I did not know that, Lambert - so I had to go out to the Jimny, and have a look.:laugh:


OSR

File Attachment:


OSF

File Attachment:



There is, also, a red dot.

File Attachment:



File Attachment:



The yellow dot, is, as you say, along side the valve on each wheel.





Steve.

“He that strikes the venison first shall be the lord o' the feast.” — Shakespeare, King Lear.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
07 Sep 2019 07:26 #213244 by facade
The red dot is the point of "greatest harmonic force" = the highest point of the tyre when it is rotating.

Steel wheels are rolled and welded together, and they won't be perfectly round, so the lowest point is marked with a punch mark, or a coloured dot on the rim. My gen 3 had blue dots on the rims.

If the rims are marked, the red dot is lined up to the rim marker, ignoring the yellow, as this makes the wheels have less radial run-out, and gives a better rotating balance.

If they aren't, the yellow dot goes by the valve, which helps with static balance.

I assume that as the wheels are cast, and have to be machined round, that it isn't much trouble to make them properly round to the locating holes in the first place, so they don't have any measurable radial run-out, so they aren't marked. (Rather than the less charitable explanation thatSuzuki couldn't be bothered testing and marking them :laugh: )

If it suddenly breaks, go back to the last thing that you did before it broke and start looking there :)
The following user(s) said Thank You: Lambert, stiffsteve204me

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Lambert
  • Lambert's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Moderator
  • Moderator
    Registered
  • The quickest Jimny in Harrogate...(that I own)
More
07 Sep 2019 08:17 #213247 by Lambert

stiffsteve204me wrote:

Lambert wrote: Another thing that is probably of little use now the tyres are fitted is that all new tyres will have a small yellow dot somewhere on the sidewall. This is a marker of the lightest part of the tyre and allows the tyre to be fitted with this mark against the valve on the rim, offsetting the weight and making the assembly easier to balance. It's why brand new cars have hardly any balance weights from the factory. It seems that most tyre fitters either don't know or don't care about this even if it would actually save them time and money.


I did not know that, Lambert - so I had to go out to the Jimny, and have a look.:laugh:


OSR

File Attachment:


OSF

File Attachment:



There is, also, a red dot.

File Attachment:



File Attachment:



The yellow dot, is, as you say, along side the valve on each wheel.





Steve.


There's a whole heap of useful information out there. I'm just grateful for this forum for allowing us to share it. Bigjimny Rocks!

Dreadnaught (black 2011)

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Lambert
  • Lambert's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Moderator
  • Moderator
    Registered
  • The quickest Jimny in Harrogate...(that I own)
More
07 Sep 2019 08:23 #213248 by Lambert

facade wrote: The red dot is the point of "greatest harmonic force" = the highest point of the tyre when it is rotating.

Steel wheels are rolled and welded together, and they won't be perfectly round, so the lowest point is marked with a punch mark, or a coloured dot on the rim. My gen 3 had blue dots on the rims.

If the rims are marked, the red dot is lined up to the rim marker, ignoring the yellow, as this makes the wheels have less radial run-out, and gives a better rotating balance.

If they aren't, the yellow dot goes by the valve, which helps with static balance.

I assume that as the wheels are cast, and have to be machined round, that it isn't much trouble to make them properly round to the locating holes in the first place, so they don't have any measurable radial run-out, so they aren't marked. (Rather than the less charitable explanation thatSuzuki couldn't be bothered testing and marking them :laugh: )


Thanks for saving me typing that out. But I have quoted it so it has a chance to sink in. Thank you.

Dreadnaught (black 2011)
The following user(s) said Thank You: facade

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Time to create page: 0.196 seconds
Powered by Kunena Forum

I hope you enjoy using this forum. Please consider making a donation towards the upkeep of this forum website.