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Bearing retainer creep

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18 May 2019 20:30 #208291 by mlines
Having thought my rear bearings have failed (both!) I took them off tonight.

Neither bearing felt worn but both move on the shaft "in and out". It looks like the retainer has moved back,

Has anyone experienced this?

It almost looks as if I could nip it back up tight in a press, however I think it is probably damaged so I will replace. Is there a way to stop this creep?


Martin

2003 M13 early KAP build.
3" Trailmaster lift with 1.5 Spacers on front
Customised winch bumper and roll cage
235/85R16 Maxxis Bighorns on 16" Rims, 4:1 Rocklobster, Rear ARB locker and on-board air
Corrected arms all-round, rear disks, Recaro seats and harnesses

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18 May 2019 21:00 #208293 by Lambert
Replied by Lambert on topic Bearing retainer creep
I have never done one myself yet but is it possible that the bearing or the ring weren't fully seated at installation or that there was a burr or other debris preventing them seating completely that has subsequently been dislodged? Od that it's both simultaneously? Were both retainers new, could it be a manufacturing issue that they are slightly oversized to grip the half shaft?

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One of the last 200ish of the gen3s, probably.
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18 May 2019 21:09 - 18 May 2019 21:10 #208294 by mlines
Replied by mlines on topic Bearing retainer creep
The bearings and retainers were changed at the same time so would have been from a similar batch from the supplier (and whilst one might have not pressed home properly I find two hard to believe. However I also changed to the 31" tyres so a considerable change in dynamics. Also, in the sandy south, bearings have a naturally short life so the shaft has had lots of retainers on it over the years, does it wear?

Martin

2003 M13 early KAP build.
3" Trailmaster lift with 1.5 Spacers on front
Customised winch bumper and roll cage
235/85R16 Maxxis Bighorns on 16" Rims, 4:1 Rocklobster, Rear ARB locker and on-board air
Corrected arms all-round, rear disks, Recaro seats and harnesses
Last edit: 18 May 2019 21:10 by mlines.

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18 May 2019 22:28 #208297 by Jezz
Replied by Jezz on topic Bearing retainer creep
Yes the shaft can wear. It is normally caused by bearing pick up and rotating the inner race.

Both the KAM rear shafts have suffered this on mine, (like it when i got it) due to lack of bearing changes. Hence my interest when you where talking about them reproducing some of there stuff.

It's been fettled just a tad.
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18 May 2019 22:30 #208298 by Jezz
Replied by Jezz on topic Bearing retainer creep
I should add, Thats just a google pic, Not mine.

It's been fettled just a tad.

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19 May 2019 05:14 #208300 by Lambert
Replied by Lambert on topic Bearing retainer creep
Would it be possible to get a circlip groove machined into the shaft to help locate the retainer? I know that it would act as a stress riser but it would also be a fuseable link to protect the diff?

Temeraire (2018 quasar grey automatic)
One of the last 200ish of the gen3s, probably.
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19 May 2019 05:25 #208302 by mlines
Replied by mlines on topic Re:Bearing retainer creep
I asked around and got a reply that something like this is needed during assembly:



www.bearing-king.co.uk/bearing/loctite-6...YTcJldQaAsZbEALw_wcB

Loctite seem to do 2 or 3 variants so I have dropped a query in to their support about product selection.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

Martin

2003 M13 early KAP build.
3" Trailmaster lift with 1.5 Spacers on front
Customised winch bumper and roll cage
235/85R16 Maxxis Bighorns on 16" Rims, 4:1 Rocklobster, Rear ARB locker and on-board air
Corrected arms all-round, rear disks, Recaro seats and harnesses

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19 May 2019 05:33 #208304 by Lambert
Replied by Lambert on topic Re:Bearing retainer creep
That should help certainly. My only concern would be if there is enough force being applied in service to dislodge a compression fit retainer, that is a similar force as required for disassembly? At that money though it has to be worth a try.

Temeraire (2018 quasar grey automatic)
One of the last 200ish of the gen3s, probably.
ADOS Attention Deficit Ooooh Shiny!

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19 May 2019 05:51 #208305 by Riccy
Replied by Riccy on topic Re:Bearing retainer creep
I have exactly the same issue with J999MNY.

After our Nortumberland outing I noticed oil on the wheel so assumed it was the bearing failing.
Pulled that shaft (driver side) and found what your video shows. The bearing seems ok but has excess side movement. There was a small gap between the bearing and the abs collar. Memory serves from the garage pressing those bearings on saying that they were unable to get it down any further.
At the time i put a new oil seal in (thinking that was the problem) and left it at that.

Fast forward to last weekends mammoth outing around the lakes and oldham and I now have the same oil leak on the same wheel again. This time I will be heating the retainer up to get it on a bit further and see. I dont think mine is rotating, slipping or moving, just never been on far enough in the first place.

J999 MNY, ULYSSES M18 VVT with ITB's Dyno tested at 130hp

Pickup/tipper, R7me gearbox & 6.4 Rocklobster, 31" Toyo MT, 2x ARB air locker 3.9 diffs in braced axles, 6" total lift, Floating rear conversion, Raptor painted, CB, Recaro's, Caged, etc, etc...

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19 May 2019 07:18 #208309 by mlines
Replied by mlines on topic Bearing retainer creep
I pressed mine on fully originally, I am confident of that.

Will explore the "glue" route

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Martin

2003 M13 early KAP build.
3" Trailmaster lift with 1.5 Spacers on front
Customised winch bumper and roll cage
235/85R16 Maxxis Bighorns on 16" Rims, 4:1 Rocklobster, Rear ARB locker and on-board air
Corrected arms all-round, rear disks, Recaro seats and harnesses
The following user(s) said Thank You: yakuza

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19 May 2019 11:53 - 19 May 2019 12:03 #208348 by facade
Replied by facade on topic Re:Bearing retainer creep

mlines wrote: I asked around and got a reply that something like this is needed during assembly:



www.bearing-king.co.uk/bearing/loctite-6...YTcJldQaAsZbEALw_wcB

Loctite seem to do 2 or 3 variants so I have dropped a query in to their support about product selection.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


Loctite 648 is the one you want, it works with press/interference fitted assemblies.
It shouldn't be able to, as you'd expect it to wipe off, but if you look at the shaft, there are fine lines caused by fitting the bearing & retainer, so there actually isn't 100% surface contact, and there is a microspace for the loctite to fill up and bond.

If it suddenly breaks, go back to the last thing that you did before it broke and start looking there :)
Last edit: 19 May 2019 12:03 by facade.
The following user(s) said Thank You: mlines

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19 May 2019 13:43 #208360 by wombat
Replied by wombat on topic Bearing retainer creep
Many years ago when i built rally cars for a living, on the ford escorts we pressed the bearing retainer onto the shaft and then added a small weld to stop the retainer possibly creeping. Made it harder to next change the bearings but was considered worth it to prevent the halfshaft pulling out under extreme cornering loads
just a thought :) :)

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